Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am a little fuzzy on the CAM timing comments I read, I have an 848 with 600 miles on it and the first service done. At what point is it work have CAM timing service done to improve performance...?

I asked the level 2 tech about CAM timing and she told me dont worry about it, if the bike feels sluggish we will look into it...if it needs it its covered under warranty...huh

Please someone enlighten me on when and or how I can tell I need it...

thank you,
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,256 Posts
Motorcycles are built in a factory. Cam's are timed to spec, but its done very quickly. Some assembly guys are better then others, so some bikes have excellent timing out of the factory, others don't. What most people do is just re-time the bike to factory spec's. You can do it at any time during the motorcycle's life and it may not do anything or it may help the performance slightly.

If you feel the motorcycle is sluggish, have you ridden another one to compare?



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Do you mean cam timing? or cam degreeing? Because to the best of my knowledge the factory uses the exact same tools that all Ducati shops have (which would be just setting the timing)

I don't think I've ever pulled covers off a new/newish bike and found the timing to be off. I almost always have found that belt tension wasn't quite right. I have also found that most cams are off at least a little if you degree them.

And yes, its amazing the difference between a bike that is close to spec but not actually spot on. Set all the shims to .10, belts to exactly 110 or 90 (depending on age) and do cam degreeing and its night and day.

None of which would be covered under warranty unless the bike is actually having an issue.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,256 Posts
I think cam timing and cam degreeing are pretty much one in the same job. You need to get the reference off the crank to make sure the timing is proper to begin with, before you then time the cams. I assume a "cam timing" job would include BOTH operations. Maybe thats an assumption on my part?

I have very little experience with timing my own bikes, I don't have the need to. Though at the same time, it seems like Ducati's always have something out of whack from the factory. Wether its the belt tension, cam timing, or even valve clearances, something is off. Going through the motor with a fine-tooth comb, usually gives back some missed power. Heck, I'm witness to that when my new 848 had closers so far out of whack, the gap was over 2mm! Yes, not .2mm, but 2mm! Yea, nice job Ducati! :rolleyes:

And no, that was not covered under warranty... I had to by new shims and do it myself. :(



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
thanks guys, no the bike does not feel sluggish so far...but then again I just finished the break in and will pick it up tomorrow to open it up on a nice stretch of road.

I asked the mech to check on it anyway and she told me if it feels off during the test ride they would look into it...I almost told her if you dont want my money i can take it to someone who does... :) j/k she was probably just being honest and saving me money.

She is a level 2 BTW...I guess level 3 can work on DesmoEXPENSIVES race bikes...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
I think cam timing and cam degreeing are pretty much one in the same job. You need to get the reference off the crank to make sure the timing is proper to begin with, before you then time the cams. I assume a "cam timing" job would include BOTH operations. Maybe thats an assumption on my part?

I have very little experience with timing my own bikes, I don't have the need to. Though at the same time, it seems like Ducati's always have something out of whack from the factory. Wether its the belt tension, cam timing, or even valve clearances, something is off. Going through the motor with a fine-tooth comb, usually gives back some missed power. Heck, I'm witness to that when my new 848 had closers so far out of whack, the gap was over 2mm! Yes, not .2mm, but 2mm! Yea, nice job Ducati! :rolleyes:

And no, that was not covered under warranty... I had to by new shims and do it myself. :(
Nope you do Degreeing or Timing, not both.

Degreeing uses dial indicators to find the exact lobe center and then sets that to spec. It also takes a whole longer and is only done under certain circumstances. Most bikes are off at least a little, some are off more. One thing though is if you do decide to have someone do degreeing from then on you can no longer use the normal timing tools during your services (unless you decide to throw out the degreeing)

For timing you just slap the tools into the holes and you're done. Timing doesn't necessarily compensate for variation in manufacturing, however generally its close enough for government work.

...its kinda like using a frequency sensor to set your belts (degreeing)or using a 6mm allen (timing).

As far as the tech 2 vs 3... tech 3 have taken the desmosidici course, they also have taken several other similar specialized courses. Ohlins suspension rebuilding and such. For 99% of the what's done in a shop tech 2 covers it.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,256 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Well setting timing is just a more general verbage. Cam Degreeing is just a way to set timing (the most accurate way)... as opposed to timing with the special tools.
 

·
Senior Narcissista
Joined
·
5,737 Posts
imho,

checking cam timing is what it sounds like, checking what timing the cams have.
If youre happy with toothbelt resolution then the markings are fine, however you may want degree resolution and then dial guages is a good way to go.

Then you got a result and if its not what you want them to be you want to change them, adjust cam timing, cam degreeing, time cams, etc.. and it goes on =)
 

·
Duc ... Duc ... GOOSE!
Joined
·
1,928 Posts
Assuming you put a set of SPS cams in a 996 ... would you then "degree" them or simply "time" them to factory spec?

I deal with cam timing all the time in my line of work ... I adjust my valve clearance and then use a dial indicator to time the cam.

Even with the above descriptions, I hate to say it but I'm with Tye ... they sound like one and the same. :confused: Is the only difference the use of "timing marks" vs. "dial indicators"?

Oh, and this is for the OP:

 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top