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Ok, I need some advice on something. Found a motor for my track only 848 (I spun a main on my bike). Guy sent me the receipts from the shop and the shop is very, very reputable (from FasterTwins in Virginia. Seems to have a great reputation, no question on the build). Paid over $5000 for the engine build including upgraded main bearings, etc etc. He's getting a divorce, selling everything. Motor has about 300 laps on it. How do you buy a motor with confidence?? Shipping isn't an issue, just purely want to make sure I'm covered after we exchange money for goods and that the motor doesn't grenade after a lap.
 

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I don’t see a magic solution here. That’s a ton of money to pay for something you can’t verify. The only thing I can think of would be to have him take the motor back to the shop that built it and pay for verification that it’s ok before shipping. Personally I’d pass.
 

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with a custom built motor you never know what you are getting, and 300 laps isn't exactly a fresh engine. $5k is also a lot to spend on an engine what else was done to it?

if it were me I would I would just replace the engine with a used one for a few hundred bucks, and then see if you can rebuild your bad engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the input, fellas.

So a used motor is averaging around $1500 right now. And with the lowest milage motors being around 8-10k miles, I'm not sure how good that is. 300 miles is equivalent to about 150 laps on the motor I'm looking at. This is what's hard to figure out what to do. To get my motor rebuilt, it's probably going to cost about $5k. This includes upgrading the big end bearings and any crank repair from scoring.

I'm going to call the shop that built this particular motor and ask them if there's anyway to verify the condition of this motor without a complete tear down.
 

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Is his asking price 5K? With having to rebuild yours, maybe have the build shop verify work was done. Talk with the builder. Have you seen this motor run? Laps on a track doesn't necessarily mean its been beaten up. Even if the track were 5 miles long, that's only 1500 miles at 300 laps. I would say, at least its been broken in and has proved to be a known runner. When a motor is freshly rebuilt and needs broken in is the time to be worried most. Bad clearances etcetera generally show themselves quite early in such a situation.

Has Ducati addressed the bearing failures with updated parts? (I don't know, why I ask) Can you fit another spec motor into your frame? 1200cc whatever................
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Is his asking price 5K? With having to rebuild yours, maybe have the build shop verify work was done. Talk with the builder. Have you seen this motor run? Laps on a track doesn't necessarily mean its been beaten up. Even if the track were 5 miles long, that's only 1500 miles at 300 laps. I would say, at least its been broken in and has proved to be a known runner. When a motor is freshly rebuilt and needs broken in is the time to be worried most. Bad clearances etcetera generally show themselves quite early in such a situation.

Has Ducati addressed the bearing failures with updated parts? (I don't know, why I ask) Can you fit another spec motor into your frame? 1200cc whatever................
So he is only asking $3200. I am waiting on the builder to return my call and I will speak with him.

I haven't seen the motor run, it's actually out of the bike and on a crate because he parted the bike out. (He's in DC, I'm in Florida). And I do agree with you on the milage. It's actually barely used, IMHO. Ducati did NOT address the situation. Big end bearing failure was a problem for the complete line of 848 motors. The fix was to use 1198 bearings instead (which this motor does have). Waiting on the builder to find out what other upgrades, if any, were installed.

I did just get an offer of a low milage (10k miles, which is still a LOT more than the rebuild motor, comparing milage) EVO motor for $1400.....so I could do that, risk it while I get my own motor rebuilt.

Again...worth the gamble or not is the question. If it's a solid build, I shouldn't have anything to worry about. Trusting someone I don't know (the customer who got the rebuild) is the hesitation.
 

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I worked in professional motorsports for many years, there is a big difference between a street engine miles and a track engine... a race engine has been run at its maximum for the vast majority of its life, that means high oil pressure, high heat, and high friction. we typically measure race engine life in hours, 20-30 hours is usually considered good, though I have seen them grenade a lot sooner, and I have seen them go a lot longer.

a lot of variables can contribute to a race engine, tuning, what fuel types were used, balance, ring types, bearing type, what was done in the top end. so its really hard to determine how long a used race engine will last. does he have any kind of log book or documentation? or can you look up the race history through what ever organization he was racing in, find out how many races that bike was in since the engine was done.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I worked in professional motorsports for many years, there is a big difference between a street engine miles and a track engine... a race engine has been run at its maximum for the vast majority of its life, that means high oil pressure, high heat, and high friction. we typically measure race engine life in hours, 20-30 hours is usually considered good, though I have seen them grenade a lot sooner, and I have seen them go a lot longer.

a lot of variables can contribute to a race engine, tuning, what fuel types were used, balance, ring types, bearing type, what was done in the top end. so its really hard to determine how long a used race engine will last. does he have any kind of log book or documentation? or can you look up the race history through what ever organization he was racing in, find out how many races that bike was in since the engine was done.
Agreed that a race motor is run at max most of its life. So let’s say 150 laps at an average of 2 minute laps. That’s 300 minutes or maybe 5 hours. All the CCS results I could find adds up to significantly less, so I’m assuming he also included some track days in his estimate. 93 octane with oil changes after every use. No DNF’s that I can find on record. I’ll find out a lot more when I speak to the engine builder.

I’ve attached the invoices if y’all are familiar with Ducati part numbers.
 

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Is the $3200 motor that much better than the $1400 motor?
Assuming both are in good running shape? The one is more than double the price of the other.
I know the decision I would make. The cheap bastard decision. :laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Is the $3200 motor that much better than the $1400 motor?
Assuming both are in good running shape? The one is more than double the price of the other.
I know the decision I would make. The cheap bastard decision. :laugh:
Hahahaha....well, a blue printed motor with upgraded bearings is always much better than a factory motor. And so far, lowest mileage motor I’ve found is still way more mileage than the race motor, debate about harshness aside.
 

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You plan on racing, going fast, or just leading novices around for parade laps?

:grin2:
t_bare
 

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Well....literally as I was about to send a deposit....a 2008 R6 came up for sale....at the same price as the 848 motor. SOOOO....I'll be picking up a R6 this Sunday....then the rebuild of my own motor will begin over the winter months!!!
 

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Hahahaha....well, a blue printed motor with upgraded bearings is always much better than a factory motor. And so far, lowest mileage motor I’ve found is still way more mileage than the race motor, debate about harshness aside.
depends who builds it, sure you can go with low friction bearings, lighter rods, higher compression pistons, etc. and the race engine will outperform the stock engine, but doesn't mean it will last as long.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
depends who builds it, sure you can go with low friction bearings, lighter rods, higher compression pistons, etc. and the race engine will outperform the stock engine, but doesn't mean it will last as long.
True, but when comparing a blue-print build, not all-out race build. I wouldn't want to provide the budget for a real race motor build because you're rebuilding it all of the time. I'm speaking of a blue-print type build, which is what we're generally discussing here.
 

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It's hard to compare a street engine with a race engine, If he was just a novice and didnt build it to the 9's then it may be closer to a street engine --But if he went all the way with it and was a good competitive racer then thats a different thing---I race vintage in AHRMA and if --(and thats a BIG IF) I have no engine problems during the season I will go through the engine at the end of every season at the very least, depending on how many races I do in a year. But a Race engine get's a hell of alot more punishment in one race then a street engine gets in many thousands of miles mainly because it lives it's life at W.F.O. throttle most of the time. If I were to purchase a race engine from someone else with the kind of time that one has, the first thing I would do is tear it down and go through it completely and freshen it up. at least thats my opo
 
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