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maybe......or perhaps maybe not if Erion has anything to say about it...

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2006/Jan/060123c0a.htm


though I think Erion's arguement is a bit hypocritical being that they are seemingly doing the same thing....haven't seen a streetable Erion since the special edition 929......and I wonder how much HRC stuff goes into the Erion?
 

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Chuckracer said:
The Buell is not legal, but that won't stop them. Hey, this is the AMA, and the AMA will ignore whatever rules it has to so Harley can play. You betcha.

I'll take that bet. You won't see Harley manipulating rules any more. Not in that class. Not with so many 600 sales at stake and certainly not with such a big CC disparity...

Maybe if F/X was still a "mixed-bikes/ cheap-entry class" like it was originally intended things might be different but now that it's the big event the Japanese manufacturers call the shots. So...

IF the AMA even lets Buell in - doubtful because there is no street version of the RR and rules mandate such... and IF Buell actually enters - even more doubtful as there really are no competitive riders even if Buell wanted to race and recall last year when Buell said they'd be there but never showed... and IF Buell actually does podium (do I even need to comment on the likelihood of a Buell - much less a privateer Buell - making the podium or even finishing a 200 miler at those speeds?) you'll see a big rules change in F/X for next year.

And speaking of Buell's Daytona (non) effort of last year, my guess is that Buell knows something is up with respect to rules changes and they're getting whatever they can ($30k x 50 bikes, or a paltry $1.5million) by selling the bikes to privateers and collectors before the bike becomes a "relic without a class"
 

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MikeM said:
I'll take that bet. You won't see Harley manipulating rules any more. Not in that class. Not with so many 600 sales at stake and certainly not with such a big CC disparity...

Maybe if F/X was still a "mixed-bikes/ cheap-entry class" like it was originally intended things might be different but now that it's the big event the Japanese manufacturers call the shots. So...

IF the AMA even lets Buell in - doubtful because there is no street version of the RR and rules mandate such... and IF Buell actually enters - even more doubtful as there really are no competitive riders even if Buell wanted to race and recall last year when Buell said they'd be there but never showed...
4 Buell's are entering the Daytona FX race. Looks like they're putting a much different spin on it, from Roadracing World website:

"The 2007 Buell Firebolt XB-RR is a production racebike (essentially a streetbike fitted with a race kit at the factory and sold for competition use only, much like Ducati’s 999RS and 749RS models) designed to have competitive horsepower, to weigh near the AMA Formula Xtreme minimum weight limit, to be durable enough to last an entire race season with only routine maintenance and to be versatile enough to be raced in several professional, pro-am and amateur organizations and classes."

full article:

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=24920
 

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vduc said:
4 Buell's are entering the Daytona FX race. Looks like they're putting a much different spin on it, from Roadracing World website:

"The 2007 Buell Firebolt XB-RR is a production racebike (essentially a streetbike fitted with a race kit at the factory and sold for competition use only, much like Ducati’s 999RS and 749RS models) designed to have competitive horsepower, to weigh near the AMA Formula Xtreme minimum weight limit, to be durable enough to last an entire race season with only routine maintenance and to be versatile enough to be raced in several professional, pro-am and amateur organizations and classes."

full article:

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=24920

Vito, thanks. Saw that, too. And there's this one
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2006/Jan/060123c0a.htm

in which Soup points out an F/X bike must be "based" on a street bike but there IS no such thing as a street-legal XB-RR.

Bottom line, it's legal if the AMA *says* it's legal.

Now, if Buell IS allowed to race in F/X this year, and they do so successfully, I'm convinced we'll see that loophole lugged next year. The makers of the 600's have too much at stake to lose this race...

If the Buells DO end up racing, I may even go to Daytona this year. I don't really have any particular liking for Buells, it just seems like it would make for a good race.
 

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AMA soup:

"AMA Pro Racing sources said this week that based on the fact that the rules for an air-cooled Twin in Formula Extreme are so wide, and allow for so many modifications, that it is their belief that the XBRR is legal for the Formula Extreme class."

Harley wouldn't have built the bikes and sold them for 30k a pop if they weren't going to be able to run them. They got the go-ahead from the AMA long before this announcment was made. Does that make them legal? Nope, but this is the AMA...where it's common to make up rules on the fly.

Bet on, Mike.
 

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Chuckracer said:
AMA soup:

"AMA Pro Racing sources said this week that based on the fact that the rules for an air-cooled Twin in Formula Extreme are so wide, and allow for so many modifications, that it is their belief that the XBRR is legal for the Formula Extreme class."

Harley wouldn't have built the bikes and sold them for 30k a pop if they weren't going to be able to run them. They got the go-ahead from the AMA long before this announcment was made. Does that make them legal? Nope, but this is the AMA...where it's common to make up rules on the fly.

Bet on, Mike.
Double or nothing on whether any of 'em finish?
 

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MikeM said:
Double or nothing on whether any of 'em finish?
:D Not that I'M going to rush out and buy a Buell but I'm sort of fan. I would have thought Honda would have wielded their big stick to keep the Buell Firebolt XB-RR out, maybe Harley has a bigger one ;)

I just don't see them winning (at least a championship), maybe some fast laps, close to the front, that's it. Back in the ProThunder days they were impressive for a few laps than BOOM and a cloud of smoke...
 

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i've seen lots of KR harleys go 200 miles and still run strong. that said all big twins including ducati have a rough time at daytona. the water cooled multi cylinder bikes are well suited for daytona. i had decided to skip the 200 this year, because last year it was more than i could handle watching three hondas finish 1,2,3 at the 200 by honda. you want to talk about harley having the AMA bought and paid for.
 

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Based on my reading of the AMA rulebook, the XBRR IS legal for racing. Last year saw HRC turn FX into a two-horse race because they had so seriously modified streetbikes to such an extreme. It was an HRC America operation (read - factory) and the used the CBR600RR as their platform. There are numerous articles from last season about the testing and new part development that Ludington was doing - and you can bet that those were not stock parts.

The XBRR is based on the XB streetbike and modified by the factory to create the XBRR. Obviously, Buell is free to develop and modify any part on the bike they choose or in any combination as long as they don't go outside the parameters in the rulebook relating to engine, chassis, geometry, wheel size, or suspension. It seems to me that the discrepancy is in the naming designation as well as in Erion's thought that the Buells may actually be competitive.

There is nothing in the rulebook that says the frame has to STAY at production levels of geometry or contruction or that the motor has to stay in stock-only trim, only that it has to use a homologated streetbike as the platform upon which to build. It also only specifies the limitations of modifications, and in FX the teams can modify almost anything they want. Severely limiting the modifications brings FX down to Supersport levels and that eliminates the need for one of those classes.

I personally don't see what all the hubaloo is about because the Buells won't be very competitive anyway. Like Vito says, they'll turn some heads but won't compete for the title.

Personally, I think Honda in general likes whipping everybody else, a la Max Biaggi and their coup d'etat of keeping him out of competition at any level.
 

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Straight from the AMA rule book:

5. The following items may not be altered from the originally approved model on all engine types except as noted:
a. Stock main frame

1. Frame must display vehicle identification number.

2. Strengthening gussets and tubes may be added, but none may be removed.



3. Accessory brackets (radiator, shock reservoir, stands, etc.) may be changed, relocated, added or removed. Holes may
be drilled only for the purpose of attaching brackets or other components.
b. Swing arms


1. Stock swing arms must be utilized. The only modifications permitted are gusseting and attachment of stand mounts, and to allow the fitment of non-stock brake components, spacers, axles, and wheels. Any such modifications may not alter the fore and aft axle adjustment dimensions or any other pivot or linkage locations from that of the stock swing arm. 1000cc-13500cc air-cooled twin-cylinder motorcycles are unrestricted.

2. Rear wheel sprocket and brake rotor must remain with the wheel assembly when removed from swing arm.





h. Approval of Formula Xtreme® Motorcycles

1. Only approved motorcycles may be used in Formula Xtreme competition.

2. Formula Xtreme competition is restricted to motorcycles
(engines and frames) produced for US street use andavailable in the US through retail dealers.


Actually the frame is more tightly controlled in FX. For a twin engine mods are unlimited. You're right no reason for the hubaloo, legal or not, it's really moot because the AMA can do what they want. I hope Buell does well, maybe Ducati will go do something then.

Michael I think your assessment of Honda is dead on...


 

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harleyjohn45 said:
i've seen lots of KR harleys go 200 miles and still run strong. that said all big twins including ducati have a rough time at daytona. the water cooled multi cylinder bikes are well suited for daytona. i had decided to skip the 200 this year, because last year it was more than i could handle watching three hondas finish 1,2,3 at the 200 by honda. you want to talk about harley having the AMA bought and paid for.
Hmmm.. Mladin has Superbike racing pretty much locked up for a while and all of a sudden the 200 is an F/X event. Can you say "Honda Power" LOL


Now, regarding the Buell effort... The 2005 AMA Pro Racing rule book states on page 21 under the heading of Equipment Standards--Formula Xtreme: AMA Formula Xtreme motorcycles are based on production four-stroke street motorcycles.

And, on page 27 of the 2005 AMA Pro Racing rule book it states: Formula Xtreme competition is restricted to motorcycles (engines and frames) produced for US street use and available in the US through retail dealers.


The Buell press release infers that this XBRR is a new model, "a limited-edition production racing motorcycle designed exclusively for closed course competition". Using the phrase "designed exclusively" in this context would seem to mean this is not a hopped-up machine based on a production streetbike. Buell PR says that the XBRR is "a modified XB engine and chassis".

There is no such animal as an XBRR streetbike.

No matter. If the AMA says it's legal, it's legal.

Take a look at some of the major motor components - cylinders, for example - they look nothing like the stuff that's on the produciton bikes.
and...

Don't forget that Buell made a LOT of noise about entering the 200 LAST year. Not a single Buell made the grid. They did enter a couple of other F/X races during the season and even qualified in the top ten before the leaking started. The highest finish for a Buell all year long was 18th, IIRC. I'll be surprised if any of 'em make it to the first pit stop on the same lap as the leader.
 

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now to see how it'll perform?!?!?!?!?......if it does well....I think all the other brands will pitch a bit of a fit I am guessing....
 

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let them bitch, i'm sick of them anyway. i am ready for some twins racing. moto guzzi, ducati, harley and who ever else wants to join in. if honda, kawasaki, yamaha and suzuki pulled out, i suspect they would not be missed. on second thought, i'm sure we would miss the whinning.
 

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HarleyJohn, have you got any idea how many (or should I say how FEW) people show up for the 200? Doesn't look like many fans in the stands....
 
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