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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There had been so much talks about this issue, I figure might as well start its own thread, and see how much more craps can we come up with...........

In my opinion, I don't agree what DMG is doing by allowing Buell to race the racing version of 1125, and Japs 600s had to be production based.

So, what are your thoughts?
 

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I think they should just bring back the pro thunder class. There are enough supberbike twins in the market to make a class out of it. Sure Buel would be at the back of the pack but really, come on.. Isn't that where they belong?

DMG must be getting some back door action by Buel. So funny and sad at the same time that they wrapped up SS with the win but had to actually work really hard for it.
 

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yep... it's crap.
 

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pegram should just race a 1198 against the 600's too.... another title for Ducati i suppose... or buell could try to make a 600...

truth is... the buell.. IMO.. is an unsuccessful attempt at a superbike... allowed to race where it can keep up... sure the racing is close... but imagine if you spent all of your own cash on a 600... then the big boy shows up 'cause there's some gray area in the rule book.. you wouldn't like it either...

people will say.. well why don't other brands take advantage of the same broken rules as buell has?... i think that most brands that are not made in this country look at our series and are starting to consider it a waste of money.. and time...

another way of looking at it.... let's take all of the back markers in MotoGP... if their lap times are so slow that they don't have a chance against Rossi (over half the field in my book ) .. but their lap times are close to the smaller bikes.. lets let them race in the 250 class... or the Moto2 class next year. maybe Hayden and Ducati can win something together...

it's not suppose to be just about lap times in my book.... it about the challenge to achieve lap times on similar machinery based on a set of parameters... DMG found a place for an american made bike to actually compete... and i'm sure the rules will allow it next year... we will see if others join honda in the idea that our series is not that necessary for exposure and selling bikes...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If Buell 1125R was that good of a racebike, they wouldn't have to build the 1125RR, and lobby their way into 2010 AMA/DMG season.

DMG must be getting a lot of blowjobs from Buell.
 

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Guess I should carry the buell talk over here. as statred in the other thread... I dont like the buell but I think that it was built to compete in the daytona class. You guys need to take into account that those are not stock 600's. Honda is running thier HRC kit in so I assume (someone correct this if Im wrong) that the honda is actually a 639cc or what ever the latest factory overbore is. The daytona class is not the supersport class it is closer to the FX class. The buell that is running is close to stock. I would love to see some actual HP #'s the the bikes. I bet the buell is about even with the 600's in HP maybe has more Torque but also weighs more.
all this adds up to machines that perform similar. Kinda like 1000cc twin racing 750cc inline 4's...
 

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someone put the numbers up before... but i can't remember where...

the differences were something like:
buell was about 18 pounds heavier..
buell had about 10 more horsepower..
and the buell had about 20 plus pounds more torque..

i don't agree that the buell was created for this series... it's been around... i mean if the rules were set... then maybe they could have built it by specifics... but the rules are what's been a bit dodgy... and the honda may have been kitted.. but still... it a 600... this can go back and forth for a bit... but it's wrong in my book... soon they'll come out with a rule that says american made bikes can use whatever tires they want... but for the rest... it's a one tire rule... but hey... as long as the racing is close...

i find it insulting a bit to be honest... i've always wished that either buell or harley would step up and make a superbike.. at least one that would compare with other superbikes... not 600's...

i'd like to own one one day... but these buell's... sorry.... it's not a superbike... it's a heavy, over-engineered turd... who cares where the gas or oil rest... it's ugly, heavy, and slow... maybe honda should bring back the rc51 and show that buell what a twin should be...
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Saying the 600s were bored out with tricked parts, and 1125 was heavier with similar HP, is the most BS I've ever heard.

Thats like AMA superbike in early 2000, when Muzzys ran the bored out and completely tricked ZX-7RR against the 1000cc everyone else. Ya, the racing was close if Bostrom didn't crash or the ZX-7RR didn't blow up, but it was an obvious disadvantage for the Kawasaki.

You can bored out an engine all you want, in the end its still sitting on a plateform that you started with. And everytime you enhance the performance with engine works, you loss a little bit of reliability. Having the 600s running at the edges all the time, so it can compete with easy relax running 1125. That does not look like a fair game to me.........
 

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Wait a second, this is the way that DMG set up this class. It is open to the Aprilia Superbike, Triumph Daytona 675, Buell 1125, DUCATI 848, etc.....they wanted ALL the manufacturers or brands to compete against one another in one specific class. Adjustments to weight would be levied as the series progressed to reel in the larger capacity bikes and get them on par w/ the 600cc inline fours. But don't rip DMG because Triumph and Ducati didn't field 675s and 848s respectively......I watched all those bikes practice at Millville a few weekends ago and they ALL were fast! It is a very competitive series. Buell also raced the 1125R in the Superbike class that weekend, in practice that bike sounded awsome and really hounded Pegrams 1198R!...the Buell was stinkin' faaast! I would have loved to see a couple of 848s fielded this year but it didn't happen-it would be a perfect bike for this class.
 

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Saying the 600s were bored out with tricked parts, and 1125 was heavier with similar HP, is the most BS I've ever heard.

You can bored out an engine all you want, in the end its still sitting on a plateform that you started with. And everytime you enhance the performance with engine works, you loss a little bit of reliability. Having the 600s running at the edges all the time, so it can compete with easy relax running 1125. That does not look like a fair game to me.........
Sean did you watch the DAYTONA SUPERBIKE races?? If you did you would know that Eslick was riding the shite out of that buell to race with the "600's" that arent really 600's. So you cant make the case that the buell overpowered the 600's. Also the Datona class was open to other manufacture to running bigger bike... Aprillia was running thier RSVR Twin(not the new v-4) against the 600's as well. As far as boring the engine out.... Its alittle more than that HRC is putting out a full kit for the 600rr that is designed for FX/Daytona racing. Who cares about reliability... they only need it to run for one race. I didnt see any of them breaking down this season. All of the bikes are run at the ragged edge... the buells ragged edge is about 8500 RPMs and the I-4's is about 17500 rpms. They are totally different engines....
Also was Buell running the RR in the Dayton class? I thought that they were running the same bike you can go buy in the daytona class and the RR in the American Superbike class?
 

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IDK if the 848 would be the perfect bike for the class, the modifications you can make are limited for the twins and the 848 is pretty poor without substantial mod's against inline 4 600's that can be modded to the wazooo!
Yep,
There's more too it then just an off the showroom floor 600cc of choice v. the mighty Buell 1125. I believe even the KTM SuperDuke 990 and BMW HP2 are also allowed to compete. I believe it was at Road America last year's SunTrust Moto-ST, that one of the SuperDukes, sans front fairing (bikini) and all, smoked Doug Polen on his 848......that 990 was scary fast!
You can make all these brands compete on equal ground, it just takes some time and data.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
So here we go, DMG setup the Daytona superbike series available to just about every manufactures. But keep in mind, this is the supposely support series to AMA superbike series (but DMG really wants to make it the main event), so this is not where the manufactures would like most of their money to be spent.

The concept of many different brands and models compete in the same series is good, but you have to keep the cost of racing down as much as possible. All the brands like Japs big 4, Ducati, Aprilia, BMW etc., they want to mostly focus their racing efforts at the top of class racing, in this situation "Superbike". On top of that, Daytona superbike is a weird class of its own. Its not breeding ground to superbike, since AMA superbike is really superstock spec now. So its really a series that can only be supported by US efforts only, and thats privateers league, therefore cost of racing is gonna be a huge concern, and this is where reliability and modifications are major money factors.

Now you got Honda out of it, because Honda don't see the point doing it. So if all Yamaha and Suzuki pulls out later, what you got yourself is Buell 1125 series. Never mind the other Italians, if they do enter the series, it will still be under funded efforts to make any impact. And maybe thats also the reason the Italians don't wanna do it.

And yes, I watched Daytona superbike series, but not every race, since I can't fucking figure out when its televised. But having Buell 1125 winning the championship with many bad results, and knowing the Buell 1125 already have displacement advantage, it doesn't sound fair at all. And like I said, you can only do so much mods to a 600cc bike, at the end its not gonna run like bike with bigger displacement.

Now, the new Buell 1125RR racing version will enter 2010 DMG superbike series, thats where DMG bent the rules for Buell, while Suzuki wasn't allowed, so explain to me again where the fair game? Is this gonna carry on to other DMG series as well?
 

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They shoulda just kept the rules standard... 600cc inline 4's against 850cc twins. Same weight restrictions, same mods, same everything. This whole nonsense about restricting the bikes to be ridden is totally bullshit in a class like that. I understand if in Superbikes, the bikes you could use were limited because thats the premiere class, they want new bikes in that class.

Wasn't there someone running an 848 though from the east coast?

Anyhow, all that makes a difference is; DMG wanted Buell to get a title, so they got their dam title with a bike thats 600cc's bigger and next season Buell might be the only factory racing in the currently operating AMA.

Someone needs to start a whole new US based roadracing series thats cheap to enter and has TV rites on a channel that's more public (non-pay). If only I had a few hundred grand, I'd probably figure out how to do just that...



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Anyhow, all that makes a difference is; DMG wanted Buell to get a title, so they got their dam title with a bike thats 600cc's bigger and next season Buell might be the only factory racing in the currently operating AMA.

Someone needs to start a whole new US based roadracing series thats cheap to enter and has TV rites on a channel that's more public (non-pay). If only I had a few hundred grand, I'd probably figure out how to do just that...
I dont think that buell bought that title.. the racing was to close.... If someone said Suzuki bought all those Superbike titles I could almost belive that.
The FX/Daytona class is not the old ama supersport class. The 600's are highly modded probably putting out 140 HP or so with a dry weight of 360lbs. The buell was limited in what it could modify, so the buell racing was very close to what is on the show room floor... 146 HP and 375 dry lbs (I think the buell is heavier than that but those are the listed specs). All I can say is that if I were going to buy a title I would want alittle more of an edge than what buell got.

I also would like to see someone else step up in the world of American roadracing... only people I can see doing it would be wera.:think:
 

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Well, sure... you can say that Buell was innocent. But being an American series and it being an American bike, its pointing in that direction. They couldn't loose with Danny, he made a TUN of mistakes, but still brought home a title as he powered past the competitors. Sure, the bike doesn't like cornering, but when you've got 100 foot lb's of torq, yea... You start doing the math. Some tracks are horsepower tracks, other tracks are torq tracks and in the US, we've got lots of both. Pegram did the same thing in the Superbike class, using the torq of the Ducati to his advantage, which is fine because he was disadvantaged on the top end, even though it didn't seem like that at Daytona.



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