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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all, I have a '98 916SPS and am planning a brake upgrade. I picked up a pair of 4-pad 996R gold calipers, and am struggling deciding what else I need. I have a '95 Strada with stock calipers, SS lines, cast floating rotors, and a 19x18 master cylinder - I prefer the feel/stop of that setup over the stock 916SPS brakes (only difference between the 2 is the master cylinder). So I expect that I'll want to also upgrade the MC on the SPS.

My options that I'm contemplating (open to other options as well, of course):
  1. Keep the OE (16) master cylinder, replace the lines with HEL or OE 996R (since the caliper connection point is different).
  2. Replace the MC with a 19x18 GP MK2, replace the lines with HEL or OE 996R (I believe the MC connection is the same on this one?)
  3. Replace the MC with a 19mm RCS, replace the lines with custom HEL (not split, since RCS allows 2 connections). I feel that this is the best option, but have also read that the RCS has clearance issues on stock clip-ons, and needs a provision for the reservoir and brake light switch.. afraid I may go down a rabbit hole with this path, and will also be tempted to upgrade the clutch side to match.
Any help and advice is much appreciated.
 

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How do you use your SPS that you feel the stock brakes are inadequate. That will probably be a good start.

I use mine on the track and I don't find the stock brakes to be lacking at all, although I will be the first to admit that I care more about brake finesse and feel than I do about out and out braking power.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
How do you use your SPS that you feel the stock brakes are inadequate. That will probably be a good start.

I use mine on the track and I don't find the stock brakes to be lacking at all, although I will be the first to admit that I care more about brake finesse and feel than I do about out and out braking power.
Mostly mountain/canyon riding, occasional track day. I've become accustomed to modern bike brakes, mostly the "bite" you get initially and "two-finger braking." The SPS feels sluggish to me, although I do appreciate finesse and good modulation.
 

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Mostly mountain/canyon riding, occasional track day. I've become accustomed to modern bike brakes, mostly the "bite" you get initially and "two-finger braking." The SPS feels sluggish to me, although I do appreciate finesse and good modulation.
Hmm. To get that, you may want to just get a new bike. It's pretty expensive to get a 916 gen bike to brake like a modern bike. Don't ask me how I know.
Land vehicle Vehicle Motorsport Motorcycle racer Motorcycle
 

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Since you have the 4 pad R calipers I'd go with the RCS and HEL lines. With a good brake pad that should provide ample overall power, although perhaps not quite as much as what the Sherpa has on his bike in the photo above..
I did do that and didn't have clearance issues, but that could be because I'm running longer clip on bars. I'd recommend that to anyone with a 916 series. For a very small sum you get much better leverage for steering inputs than stock, and you alleviate m/c clearance issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hmm. To get that, you may want to just get a new bike. It's pretty expensive to get a 916 gen bike to brake like a modern bike. Don't ask me how I know. View attachment 996445
WOW. Yeah not looking to spend that kind of money, just for what would be best to do with the 996R calipers I picked up :) I do also have a modern bike, and don't expect to match it, just something closer.

Since you have the 4 pad R calipers I'd go with the RCS and HEL lines. With a good brake pad that should provide ample overall power, although perhaps not quite as much as what the Sherpa has on his bike in the photo above..
I did do that and didn't have clearance issues, but that could be because I'm running longer clip on bars. I'd recommend that to anyone with a 916 series. For a very small sum you get much better leverage for steering inputs than stock, and you alleviate m/c clearance issues.
Thanks! Motowheels also suggested the longer clip-ons and I expected the leverage could be nice as well.
 

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WOW. Yeah not looking to spend that kind of money, just for what would be best to do with the 996R calipers I picked up :) I do also have a modern bike, and don't expect to match it, just something closer.



Thanks! Motowheels also suggested the longer clip-ons and I expected the leverage could be nice as well.
I use the Renthal clip ons for the Brembo radial masters. They have nice measurement markers to make set up pretty nice.
 
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FYI - I installed 998S 4-pad calipers with a 999 radial master cylinder connected by HEL braided steel lines and fittings on my 998 Bip. The conversion cost me a total of app. £400 and the braking improvement is immense. As long as the set-up is kept serviced, the braking is as good as my seriously over-braked HM1100S with f-off one-piece radial calipers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
FYI - I installed 998S 4-pad calipers with a 999 radial master cylinder connected by HEL braided steel lines and fittings on my 998 Bip. The conversion cost me a total of app. £400 and the braking improvement is immense. As long as the set-up is kept serviced, the braking is as good as my seriously over-braked HM1100S with f-off one-piece radial calipers.
Thanks! (y)

The 4 pad calipers are more than enough brakes.
With the stock axial MC? I'm tempted to replace just the calipers, but then if I decide on a new MC later I'll need new lines once again..
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Anyone know how to calculate the ratios that I've seen @Shazaam post about? I'm curious what the ratio of the stock MC and 4-pad calipers versus the aftermarket MC ratios.
 

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Replace one item at a time from less costly to more costly. There is no sense in spending the money up front to find out later that you would have been just as happy with something less costly.

While the newer brakes are nice, very nice, I like the effort of the older stuff in the same way I liked the feel of a non slipper clutch to a slipper before the apex.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Upgrading the brakes in chronological order:

1. lines and fluid
2. Pads
3. Master cylinder
4. Rotors
5. Calipers

Most people don’t need to go past 3.
Got it thanks. I’ve done 1 & 2, it’s got nice full floating rotors, and I have the calipers.. so I’ll see how that goes.

Replace one item at a time from less costly to more costly. There is no sense in spending the money up front to find out later that you would have been just as happy with something less costly.

While the newer brakes are nice, very nice, I like the effort of the older stuff in the same way I liked the feel of a non slipper clutch to a slipper before the apex.
Thanks, I’ll order some lines and start with the calipers with the stock MC. Maybe I’ll get something in between that I like :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Strongly recommend the 999 radial m/cylinder. My 4-pad set-up didn't really come alive until I swapped the pump over.
Thanks. Does the 999 MC have the same connection point as the 916, or would I require different lines than the stock-sized 996R lines?

EDIT: I just looked at the parts diagram and saw that the lines and connections are different for 999.. which lines did you use @spinoli1 ? Does the 999 MC fit on the bars without needing a longer bar?

996R:


999:
 

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While the newer brakes are nice, very nice, I like the effort of the older stuff in the same way I liked the feel of a non slipper clutch to a slipper before the apex.
Yes, newer isn’t always better, especially when each person’s application/use/personal preference is taken into account: “low flying” through canyons with momentum and engine braking doing most of the work is quite different to racing for a championship.

FYI, I was looking at the jigsaw puzzle I’m trying to put together for my 749R/999RS project. I was comparing some old CNC P4 30/34 axial calipers against OEM 749R P4 radial calipers:
996595


The old axials weigh 540gm while the radials weigh 740gm each. Like for like carbon/organic pads are a fraction lighter for the radials but the longer bolts are heavier so all up you are talking about nearly half a kg or a full lb of extra unsprung weight with the newer system.

The old axials aren’t fashionable but they were good enough for WSB and the weight saving is significant.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Yes, newer isn’t always better, especially when each person’s application/use/personal preference is taken into account: “low flying” through canyons with momentum and engine braking doing most of the work is quite different to racing for a championship.

FYI, I was looking at the jigsaw puzzle I’m trying to put together for my 749R/999RS project. I was comparing some old CNC P4 30/34 axial calipers against OEM 749R P4 radial calipers:
View attachment 996595

The old axials weigh 540gm while the radials weigh 740gm each. Like for like carbon/organic pads are a fraction lighter for the radials but the longer bolts are heavier so all up you are talking about nearly half a kg or a full lb of extra unsprung weight with the newer system.

The old axials aren’t fashionable but they were good enough for WSB and the weight saving is significant.
Great point. I’ll weigh the 4-pad calipers in comparison to my stock 2-pad 65mm calipers and see what the weight difference is. Curious.
 

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Thanks. Does the 999 MC have the same connection point as the 916, or would I require different lines than the stock-sized 996R lines?

EDIT: I just looked at the parts diagram and saw that the lines and connections are different for 999.. which lines did you use @spinoli1 ? Does the 999 MC fit on the bars without needing a longer bar?

996R:


999:
IIRC I ordered a set of HEL lines for a 999S. Went straight on.
 
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