Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,960 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Since I have a 2006 with the 1000DS Motor, I was concerned about valve guides. Some on this site have been looking for the model numbers affected and I found this on Multistrada.net. Thanks to those guys for hunting down the information.


Technical solution implementation
From M.Y. 2006, December 2005; engine numbers are:

Supersport 1000: from engine no. ZDM992*029976* for EU model and LAB6030179 for US model

Monster S2R 1000: from engine no. ZDM992A2*026927* for EU model and RAB026287 for US model

SC Sport 1000: from engine no. ZDM992A2*026720* for EU model and WAB6026147 for US model

SC Paul Smart 1000: from engine no. ZDM992A2*026593* for EU model and WAB6026193 for US model

MTS 1000 S: from engine no. ZDM992A2*027788* for EU model and VAB6027428 for US model

- Criteria for application of the technical solution on circulating motorcycles
Changing the components upon detection of the fault.

This is the info' on the part numbers.

- Description of the technical problem solution
New intake and exhaust valve guides in a new material.

- Old/new part numbers of modified components
Intake valve guides part no. 30310261B, 30310261BA, 30310261BB , 30310261BC
(no longer available from parts department) and 30310411B, 30310411BA, 30310411BB and 30310411BC (only available for other models) have been superseded by new intake valve guides 30310411C, 30310411CA, 30310411CB and 30310411CC.

Exhaust valve guides part no. 30310271B, 30310271BA, 30310271BB, 30310271BC (no longer available from parts department) and 30310401A, 30310401AA, 30310401AB and 30310401AC (only available for other models) have been superseded by new exhaust valve guides 30310401B, 30310401BA, 30310401BB and 30310401BC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
724 Posts
I was looking into a ST-3 last year, a 2007. I had talked to 2 dealers and was told the same thing: There was a service bulletin for The Valve Guides, that they would wear out between 6000-12,000 miles. I don’t remember all the details, but I seem to recall Ducati would cover it if it happened in the first 6000 mile service, or in the 2 year warranty period, after that I think you’re on your own. I asked if after the repair with better material guides if it would happen again. I was told it would keep happening because of the geometry of the valves and all 3 valve heads had this problem (All years or what years?? I don't know). I found that hard to believe but decided against the bike --- for more then just that reason, but it was a good reason to stay away from it I thought. Last thing I wanted to do was replace guides ever spark plug change…..I told the owner and he had not heard of these issues. That was a hard one to walk away from… Other service bulletins against the bike were the Flywheel retaining nut and Fuel Harness - something to do with routing which caused chaffing I think..

I was also told that the Superbikes don’t have this issue (just many others --LOL):D
 

·
unM0derator
Joined
·
2,853 Posts
Does the "from" mean every engine after that has the problem without end?

Or is that the final engine number that had the problem?

Confused...:confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
523 Posts
yellowblur - I haven't heard of any valve guide problems reported for the 3-valve heads. And none of the models listed in that tech bulletin are 3-valvers. Not familiar with all the motors listed but they appear to all be 2-valvers. The 3-valve head was only used on the ST3.
Bill W.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,960 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I think it means suspect guides are in engines after the "from" number. I say this because I queried DNA about my frame number specifically on this issue and they replied that there are no outstanding issues on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
280 Posts
This is the first time it seems owning an 800 instead of a 1000DS is advantageous :p

The problem is that they wear out? Do you replace them with better or harder guides or do they have to be changed every 6-12k?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
724 Posts
yellowblur - I haven't heard of any valve guide problems reported for the 3-valve heads. And none of the models listed in that tech bulletin are 3-valvers. Not familiar with all the motors listed but they appear to all be 2-valvers. The 3-valve head was only used on the ST3.
Bill W.
I’m not really up on any of the different engines (history or otherwise) other then my 996 (and still learning), but I had given the dealer the VIN # to the bike, he looked it up and read off all the SB’s, valve guides being one, which was confirmed with a second dealer. The bike only had under 1000 miles on it, still under warranty. For Ducati to create a service bulletin it has to be a fairly large problem. But I agree, nobody else I talked to (pretty limited really) had heard about it either.

spyvito "I say this because I queried DNA about my frame number specifically on this issue and they replied that there are no outstanding issues on it."


After a porosity issue I had in the rear head and contacting DNA about it, they can’t be trusted to admit to much, even if it is factual, they’ll go in denial mode if it makes them look bad -- at least that is want I experienced. To bad really!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,960 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I agree, they were not too forthcoming on the spreading tank issue for example. That is why these forums are invaluable. It is a shame that one must become a detective and self-investigate. The passion and brand loyalty demonstrated by the owners of their motorcycles should indicate to Ducati that if there are problems we will stand by them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
339 Posts
What's up with this?
A friend of mine is shopping for an ST. He called me a month ago to say he was looking at a bike exactly like mine and it was mentioned they'd already replaced the valve guides because they fail??!! This was the first I've heard of a valve guide problem associated with the 3 valve head. I dismissed it as some fool who's uninformed and now I see this thread. My bike has 20,000 miles on it and I'm not seeing any tailpipe smoke or performance decrease.
What's the story?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,108 Posts
I'm not seeing a problem at 30k on my ST3. Thats one I hadn't heard of yet either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
523 Posts
montereyst3 and ducat - I'm with you folks. I hadn't heard of any problems with the 3-valve heads either until this thread. My 2005 ST3 has about 40,000 miles and still seems to be fine.

Rough idle and poor throttle response are supposed to be the primary symptoms of worn valve guides but those can also be symptoms of a broken closer spring (had one of those) or an out of tune bike. I just checked through the factory manual for information on the valve guides. It appears the only way to really check them is to pull the head. Then you measure the valve stem diameter in several places. The valve guides should be measured and checked for out of round condition. If they're not out of round then you have to compare the stem and guide measurements to be sure they're within the service limit. Of course if you need to hone a guide to correct an out of round condition you might exceed the tolerances and have to replace it anyway. The tolerances for the valve stem to guide are: Assembly clearance: 0.03-0.06 mm, Service limit: 0.08 mm. I don't think you can just lay your hand on a valve stem and say "Ooohhh, bad valve guide.".

I've got a good relationship with the tech at my local dealer. Next time I'm in there to visit I'll ask him if he's heard anything about this on the 3-valves. Until then I'm keeping on....
Bill W.
 

·
unM0derator
Joined
·
2,853 Posts
I think it means suspect guides are in engines after the "from" number. I say this because I queried DNA about my frame number specifically on this issue and they replied that there are no outstanding issues on it.
That must mean that they fixed it in time for the 1100? How convenient. Or does the 1100 also suffer from this issue?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
724 Posts
montereyst3 and ducat - I'm with you folks. I hadn't heard of any problems with the 3-valve heads either until this thread. My 2005 ST3 has about 40,000 miles and still seems to be fine.

Rough idle and poor throttle response are supposed to be the primary symptoms of worn valve guides but those can also be symptoms of a broken closer spring (had one of those) or an out of tune bike. I just checked through the factory manual for information on the valve guides. It appears the only way to really check them is to pull the head. Then you measure the valve stem diameter in several places. The valve guides should be measured and checked for out of round condition. If they're not out of round then you have to compare the stem and guide measurements to be sure they're within the service limit. Of course if you need to hone a guide to correct an out of round condition you might exceed the tolerances and have to replace it anyway. The tolerances for the valve stem to guide are: Assembly clearance: 0.03-0.06 mm, Service limit: 0.08 mm. I don't think you can just lay your hand on a valve stem and say "Ooohhh, bad valve guide.".

I've got a good relationship with the tech at my local dealer. Next time I'm in there to visit I'll ask him if he's heard anything about this on the 3-valves. Until then I'm keeping on....
Bill W.
You’re talking .003” for a service limit (.08mm), barely detectable buy feel, especially with oil filling the void, so measuring the parts becomes the only accurate way to know the extent of wear - has always been that way (the only way to cheaply refurbish a guide to proper size is to knurl [not hone] then ream it, but they normally won’t last as long as a new one). I would say from my own experiences that most engines will run just fine well beyond those “Ideal” limits (even to the point of excessive wear) with no noticeable issues (maybe some minor unexplained problems but easily lived with) and most do before high mileage rebuild time. I think they are talking excessive premature wear (say 20-30,000 mile plus type wear) to a point that you can rock the valves in place @ 6000miles or so (that is pretty bad in such a short period of time) -- as in severely worn and to obvious to ignore by someone who knows what they are looking at.

Possibly caused by a bad choice of material, or bad batch of material or even the wrong material used in manufacture. The geometry of the valve train may be putting a little extra side loading on the stem, add to that - possibly poor lubrication or excessive heat (possible riding conditions, hot weather, traffic) or combination of all of the above and they were wearing prematurely.

I can’t say I really know, only what I was told. The guides were supposedly replaced with a better material choice according to the SB. Sucks too, I really wanted that bike (although it did have another “Dealer Induced“ problem I didn‘t want to deal with which would have truly been a hassle - I could feel it!!)… but my luck on finding/owning the weird problems I tried to cut my losses/problems instead of going into a known problem.. Doesn’t mean it is “GOING” to happen, just that the odds are good it will is all. Hell, I found a 996 with 230 miles on it that had porosity in the head leaking oil into the spark plug bore -- how many of you have had this problem?????

Guide wear is another reason I’m big on extra lubrication to the top end through the fuel such as Lucas or leaded fuel (small additions of Avgas), helps lube the guides and valve seats increasing their life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
312 Posts
For some reason I have trouble understanding the bulletin. I have a 2006 S2R1000. Can someone tell me if I am affected?

My VIN is ZDM1RABP96B083357

Thank you!
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top