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Who is more talented?


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Discussion Starter #1
Who do you think has more talent in terms of motorcycle road racing?

Ben Spies: Who has beaten Maldin numberous times in AMA, now wins 3 consecutive races in 4 starts in WSBK.

Nicky Hayden: Former AMA & MotoGP champ, now looking for comeback on Ducati Desmosedici.
 

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I dont think its hard at all. If Spies and Hayden went head to head today on comperable bike and a neutral track, I think that Spies would mop up. Hope that Hayden does well this year but I know Spies is going to do well.
 

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There's another major factor that needs to be considered, that would be all the advancements that have gone into the bikes over the years, and also the tracks!!! It was much harder for nicky as a young rider to get where he is today, than it has been for Ben. Bikes are much easier to ride,have undergone major suspension improvements, and the racing conditions are much safer. Comparing these two rider's, is like comparing the 2009 R1 to the very first production R1 in 1997.

Nicky has earned everything in his career, and this is an insult to that. Ben will have his chance to shine soon enough.

Why not compare apples to apples- Spies- Edwards?? But then again- He's only won 3 races for god's sake...Talk about a crazy train..
 

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I dont think its hard at all. If Spies and Hayden went head to head today on comperable bike and a neutral track, I think that Spies would mop up. Hope that Hayden does well this year but I know Spies is going to do well.
The last time Spies and Hayden went head to head, Hayden mopped up. And if you want to claim it was the bike consider Laguna Seca this year where the third place bike was the Suzuki ridden by Vermulen finished third. The top three bikes where bridgestone shod and the michelins where their typical disaster. But through all that Hayden still finished ahead of him. But wait, Ben was sick... So lets consider Indy. Ok at Indy, Ben was the only rider of the GP regulars to test on the track. So he had more time than anyone on the grid. He was the only one with any sort of dry set-up for qualifying because it rained in all the practice sessions and no-one had as much set-up time in the dry as Ben Spies did. And in the worst conditions ever, where it really didn't matter what bike you where on (Ant West was fastest in all the wet sessions on the Kawi, worst bike on the grid) who came out ahead, Hayden. First time on the track, terrible conditions, less time then Ben on the track and what happens, Hayden wins again, this time by a wider margin. Who where the fastest guys on the track? Rossi and Hayden, not Spies. So tell me, why is Spies going to mop up Hayden? His record doesn't prove he is capable...
 

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I just love that people keep thinking that race series run in Europe make them somehow a better measure of talent...

Right now - Ben is riding better than Nicky. And Ben has beaten Nicky before, Nicky has also beaten Ben. Hell my wifes son has beaten Ben. All depends on how far back you want to look - everyone has been faster and slower than other riders.

There is no way to objectively determine who is more talented. I think Tommy Hayden is a better rider than his brother but Nicky has more of the mindset needed to win races. There are just too many factors to determine what talent is in the first place much less who has more of it. Rossi has talent but that's not all of what makes him as good as he is. I've seen a lot of riders with pure talent at riding a motorcycle but who didn't have the wherewithal to become a professional motorcycle racer. I've seen riders who didn't have that natural feel become champions because they had everything else.

Anyway, right now, I think on equal machinery Ben is faster. Get Nicky's mind back in it and they'd go back and forth.
 

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It is a question that cannot be answered unless you are just an unadulterated fanboy either way. Spies is a young talent launching himself on the world stage just like Hayden was in 2003. Hayden went on to ultimately disapoint as a racer by virtue of winning just 3 races in his entire MotoGP career despite factory Honda machinery. Let's see how we feel about Spies in 6 years time.
 

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There's another major factor that needs to be considered, that would be all the advancements that have gone into the bikes over the years, and also the tracks!!! It was much harder for nicky as a young rider to get where he is today, than it has been for Ben. Bikes are much easier to ride,have undergone major suspension improvements, and the racing conditions are much safer. Comparing these two rider's, is like comparing the 2009 R1 to the very first production R1 in 1997.

Nicky has earned everything in his career, and this is an insult to that. Ben will have his chance to shine soon enough.

Why not compare apples to apples- Spies- Edwards?? But then again- He's only won 3 races for god's sake...Talk about a crazy train..
Well part of Ben's success also stems from the fact that he is basically riding a production version of Rossi's 990cc M1. Certainly Ben's talent has also played a huge role in his success, but Ben moved to an established competitive team (Haga's) on a new bike that haas a bit of a racing pedigree (I would bet that the R-1 isn't very far off from Rossi's final 990cc M1) and the other huge factor is Tom Houseworth. Much like Rossi and Burgess, having Houseworth there is a big deal. Ben has his crew chief that he is used to working with, so a big piece of the puzzle is there. I guarantee that the results would probably be different if Spies had to work with a new unfamiliar crew chief, not because he cant ride, but because the team and communication is such a big deal.
Hayden on the other hand had to go to a new team, a new crew chief, new tracks riding a more sophisticated bike with much more adjustments. Not to mention things like carbon brakes etc. But if you look at their very first races on gp bikes Nicky finished 7th compared to Spies' 14th place finish.
 

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I just love that people keep thinking that race series run in Europe make them somehow a better measure of talent...

Right now - Ben is riding better than Nicky. And Ben has beaten Nicky before, Nicky has also beaten Ben. Hell my wifes son has beaten Ben. All depends on how far back you want to look - everyone has been faster and slower than other riders.

There is no way to objectively determine who is more talented. I think Tommy Hayden is a better rider than his brother but Nicky has more of the mindset needed to win races. There are just too many factors to determine what talent is in the first place much less who has more of it. Rossi has talent but that's not all of what makes him as good as he is. I've seen a lot of riders with pure talent at riding a motorcycle but who didn't have the wherewithal to become a professional motorcycle racer. I've seen riders who didn't have that natural feel become champions because they had everything else.

Anyway, right now, I think on equal machinery Ben is faster. Get Nicky's mind back in it and they'd go back and forth.
I recall Nicky saying that Roger is the fastest of all three. And I agree, talent is way too difficult to quantify simply by results. There are a ton of riders out there with a lot of talent that are simply under-rated based on their results. Then there are guys like Anthony Gobert who have nothing but talent, but nothing but a few race wins to show for it.
As far as Nicky's mind, I think it is still in it just based on his work ethic, but i Definitely think he needed the cange of scenery to get a fresh start.
 

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sorry I love Nicky as much as the next fan but Ben has more talent in one elbow than Nicky does in his whole body. I say this because Ben came Indy as a wildcard, rode on an unfamiliar bike on an unfamiliar track and came in 6th (in the rain) and now that he is on yet another unfamiliar bike (Yamaha) and unfamilar tracks he is taking poles and 3 wins (if I am not mistaken) in the new superbike season beating out seasoned professionals.

for the record I will always root for Nicky before Ben Spies, I have met Ben and his attitude is a bit to cocky obnoxious for me, Nicky is a much more likeable character.

Colin Edwards is my ultimate hero though (dont ask me why)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Here we are, carry on from the other thread................

I don't believe Casey Stoner is more talented or faster than Nicky Hayden, its been proven when Stoner was riding RC211V, his results were less fastastic than Hayden's rookie year. But that being said, Hayden was riding a full factory RC211V.

Stoner has many weakness, look at 2008 season, he had no strategy against Rossi when confront head on. His check out as early as possible plan just don't work every race, especially when runnnig against the odds.

Just because Hayden and Stoner were MotoGP champs, don't make them more talented than other riders. There are many less talented riders who had claimed WGP titles in the past, don't forget that luck sometimes play a big part of racing.
 

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sorry I love Nicky as much as the next fan but Ben has more talent in one elbow than Nicky does in his whole body. I say this because Ben came Indy as a wildcard, rode on an unfamiliar bike on an unfamiliar track and came in 6th (in the rain) and now that he is on yet another unfamiliar bike (Yamaha) and unfamilar tracks he is taking poles and 3 wins (if I am not mistaken) in the new superbike season beating out seasoned professionals.

for the record I will always root for Nicky before Ben Spies, I have met Ben and his attitude is a bit to cocky obnoxious for me, Nicky is a much more likeable character.

Colin Edwards is my ultimate hero though (dont ask me why)
Ben was the only rider in the field to have tested at Indy. At the time Ben had raced the bike several times and was healthy.

I'm not a big fan of Spies public persona either, and Hayden is much more approachable (I ran into him and Tommy at the Indy mile). It is really hard not to root for the guy especially with his work ethic and the heart he has shown. Regardless of how you feel about his talent, he has accomplished a lot by becoming MotoGP world champion. And if he has less talent, he certainly has accomplished more with less.

2002 WSBK should be enough for anyone to be a fan of Edwards. As for his 2000 championship, I still think Haga won that one.
 

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Bens public persona is different than Nicky and Tommy's? Granted I've known all of them since they were kids but still - they're all approachable. They're all three really good guys who are just having a blast getting paid to go racing.

Colin is a really great guy too, I'd love to see him do well this year.
 

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yeah I love Colin I just dont think he wants it bad enough, he is fast around the track but its like he has social anxiety when he gets on the track with other riders or something. I really hope he gets a win or two under his belt this season, it will do his confidence wonders.
 

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Who cares about public persona if the question is who is more talented. Kocinksi was an asshole but scary fast. No-one has a good word to say about Mladlin but he won the Australian 250 production championship in his first full year road racing, the Australian Superbike championship the next year and then got a factory 500 ride. Another scary talent
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Who cares about public persona if the question is who is more talented. Kocinksi was an asshole but scary fast. No-one has a good word to say about Mladlin but he won the Australian 250 production championship in his first full year road racing, the Australian Superbike championship the next year and then got a factory 500 ride. Another scary talent
5pts for knocking on John Koncinski...................he was damn fast.
 

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I have a huge man crush on Ben Spies...
The man is amazing and I'm torn between watching Him and Haga battle it out.
I like Haga for the obvious reasons, but I honestly think the old man wont be able to keep up with his 10 year younger rival on that new R1.

I love how Ben can decide to "check out" when he feels like it. The mans got Raw talent and has been my inspiration as far as body position goes.


That new R1 may be the only reason I sell my 999 track bike at the end of this year. Have you heard that R1? It's SICK and has all the greatness our beloved Ducs do down low, as well as the inline 4 speed up top.

I think Yamaha has got something with that bike no doubt. Now if they can only make it look better. God it's ugly, I would never ride one on the street.
But in track form... I'm thinking in 2010 I'll pick up a racers left over 09. :D

Edit: oh yeah, this is about Ben vs Nicky lol
Ben's got the talent today. Nicky is awesome and a great rider, but it's in Bens blood right now. He can taste victory and is craving it. Nicky hasn't felt that in a loooong time.
GL to both the Americans
 

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Argument ended - shift gears to a new topic

Nicky...Ben...Foggy...Baliss...Holy crap...another argument :(

How 'bout we mix it up a bit. Blonde, Brunette, or Redhead? Except this time with a twist. Which one would look good with a little grease on her thighs?:D
 
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