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Discussion Starter #1
I have read through several dozen exhaust threads and am still a little confused with the options available as far as mid pipes/cat deletes, slip-ons, servo eliminators, duc EE's, etc. My basic question is whether the exhaust valve is located in the stock silencer or collector box? Is it possible to replace either the cat or the silencer without having to remove the servo and cables (hence not having to deal with the error code). Also, I have installed the O2 Optimizer to get rid of the low RPM surging. It works great, but does the O2 sensor go away by removing either the cat or silencer? I read something about a Lamda sensor error code. How is that dealt with? Sorry about the newbie question but I'm just trying to get it all straight in my head.
 

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The stock silencer is only the silver tips. It includes nothing but a bit of baffling. The cat box is where the servo valve and cable bolt to.
Cat delete pipes like LeoVince remove the servo cable altogether and provide a small hardware piece that bolts onto the servo motor to eliminate the possibility of the error code.
You can only delete o2 sensors (which are on the header pipes, just off of the cylinder heads) if you have the ECU tuned to do so (i.e. Redline Motors flash) and plug them with an o2 sensor plug (fancy bolt). Otherwise, the o2 sensors will stay in place whether you replace the silencer and cat box or not.

Make sense?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes - thanks! Step 1 is to replace the silencer for aesthetics only as mine is now orange and scratched up. I know this will do nothing for sound or power. The cat delete will be next. It seems the earlier threads were all about the MIVV mid pipe, but it seems like the LV mid pipe is gaining popularity. Honestly, my decision on which to go with will be based on which has the easiest/most reliable servo delete trickery. Any comments on that would be appreciated.
 

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i installed the Mivv , and the gimmic to fool the sensor is a very simple ( 1 minute ) apllication. On the other hand ( although it had no bearing on what i chose ) the LV doesnt offer that simple solution

BUT the Mivv solution can easily be replicated and havent had a problem with it at all despite its simplicity.

there are instructions ( and plenty of help on tap ) once you decide what pipe you want
 

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nlzmo400r made it very clear. Could not have said it better. I would just leave the servo in place. The valve itself will go away with the cat. You won't get an error that way. The servo will still function but the cables will not actuate anything.
 

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Yes - thanks! Step 1 is to replace the silencer for aesthetics only as mine is now orange and scratched up. I know this will do nothing for sound or power. The cat delete will be next. It seems the earlier threads were all about the MIVV mid pipe, but it seems like the LV mid pipe is gaining popularity. Honestly, my decision on which to go with will be based on which has the easiest/most reliable servo delete trickery. Any comments on that would be appreciated.
I went with the MIVV mid-pipe, and although it was not necessary, I removed the servo completely. I fixed the error code by installing a Motocreations DUC.EE module that plugs in to where the servo used to be.

Significant improvements in sound, looks, and performance. No error.

Good luck with your choice.
 

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The most effective EXVL fix/deterrant is via the piece that comes with the Leo Vince mid-pipe. The spring method of the MIVV kit isn't completely fail-safe and neither is the Duc.EE.
 

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The most effective EXVL fix/deterrant is via the piece that comes with the Leo Vince mid-pipe. The spring method of the MIVV kit isn't completely fail-safe and neither is the Duc.EE.
This
 

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except for the spelling :)
 

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i just asked hypertrick to flash mine to openloop and disable the servomotor aswell. still have all the stock stuff on, but i can remove everything with no fault codes. :D
 

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The most effective EXVL fix/deterrant is via the piece that comes with the Leo Vince mid-pipe. The spring method of the MIVV kit isn't completely fail-safe and neither is the Duc.EE.
Can this be elaborated upon? What can go wrong wth the DUC.EE?
 

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Can this be elaborated upon? What can go wrong wth the DUC.EE?
It's not 100% effective in that the EXVL error will still occur, at least it would on mine and on some others. It's a good product (and a good company), maybe they've improved things a bit since using it.
 

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Let me see if I follow how some of the popular mods work:

Eliminating the cat with a LV or Mivv cat eliminator gets rid of the exhaust valve, which is related to choked/rough engine performance at low revs?

FatDuc's alter how the O2 sensors work, which in turn affect (improve) air/fuel mixture, in turn improving engine performance at low revs.

So, short of a full exhaust system install and on-board computer update, a cat elminator coupled with FatDuc (or other) O2 modulator is the path to smooth low engine rev performance nirvana?
 

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Let me see if I follow how some of the popular mods work:

Eliminating the cat with a LV or Mivv cat eliminator gets rid of the exhaust valve, which is related to choked/rough engine performance at low revs?

FatDuc's alter how the O2 sensors work, which in turn affect (improve) air/fuel mixture, in turn improving engine performance at low revs.

So, short of a full exhaust system install and on-board computer update, a cat elminator coupled with FatDuc (or other) O2 modulator is the path to smooth low engine rev performance nirvana?
In a word..... Yes.

Only thing I would add is, that for me, the Mivv solution works well. It has never failed in 10000 miles.
 

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Let me see if I follow how some of the popular mods work:

Eliminating the cat with a LV or Mivv cat eliminator gets rid of the exhaust valve, which is related to choked/rough engine performance at low revs?

FatDuc's alter how the O2 sensors work, which in turn affect (improve) air/fuel mixture, in turn improving engine performance at low revs.

So, short of a full exhaust system install and on-board computer update, a cat elminator coupled with FatDuc (or other) O2 modulator is the path to smooth low engine rev performance nirvana?
-losing the cat saves weight first and foremost.....employing a de-cat, mid-pipe changes the fueling dynamics a bit. some believe the loss of the exhaust valve improves the fueling/hesitation but i don't think it changes it all that much.

-the FatDucs help richen the air/fuel mixture in the low rpms (closed loop band) helping to improve the low rpm fueling issue (hesitation). "nirvana" may be a bit of a stretch. :)
 

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Thanks for comments, guys. I ordered some FatDucs this morning and expect in the next few weeks I'll settle on a cat elimination system. I've had my MTS for about three weeks now. LOVE the bike, but also have a few nits to pick. Rear brake sucks and and thankful for this forum and the info re: the service bulletin to attempt to remedy said ass-suckage. Rear brake kit is going on the list of 600 mi service activities. Next big nit to pick is the choppy/surge-y nature of the beast at low revs. Will be pleased as pie if the FatDucs make a marked improvement on this. Third nit is the stock windshield - my Aztec spacers arrived half hour ago and they are now on - will know soon how well they address the wind buffeting issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
My O2 Optimizer nirvana was short lived. It seemed to work pretty well for the first week or so but now runs like cr&p. I get a bogging and hesitation seemingly between the transition from closed loop to open loop. It also surges again at low rpm. I thought a read once here that someone else had a similar experience. I'll probable end up taking it off and trying a Fat Duc.
 

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My O2 Optimizer nirvana was short lived. It seemed to work pretty well for the first week or so but now runs like cr&p. I get a bogging and hesitation seemingly between the transition from closed loop to open loop. It also surges again at low rpm. I thought a read once here that someone else had a similar experience. I'll probable end up taking it off and trying a Fat Duc.
I've not done a lot of research in the O2 modifier space as of yet, but just from reading up on the FatDuc's, they report that some bikes fitted with their unit may still require some adjustment to the trottle valve.
 

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I've not done a lot of research in the O2 modifier space as of yet, but just from reading up on the FatDuc's, they report that some bikes fitted with their unit may still require some adjustment to the trottle valve.
Installed the FatDuc's on my 12' and it solved the low rpm surging. Bike runs like a charm. No adjustments necessary.

Bill
 

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No matter what solution you are looking for, in the end, the bike has to go on a dyno with each cylinder individualy mapped. And by someone competent. That is the only reference point.
 
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