[Justin Hershberger]

Came to charge my battery at the garage where my bike is kept. Someone has tried to hammer my ignition, which is now wrecked. I am handy and could possibly change the ignition myself, if the forks will unlock. Would I then just have the dealer reprogram? What other parts do/may I need? Any idea how much this is going to cost me? East Coast USA (Pittsburgh, PA). Vandalizism not covered by my insurance.
It is a 2009 Monster 696.

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[2004 999s]

if yours has anti theft may look into a used tumbler then ask a locksmith if they could replace just the damaged parts.may save some $$$.removing is somewhat ez if you have tools.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2016-Ducati-Monster-1200-S-Ignition-Switch-Key-Lock-SET-S-40611131E-I-59821061A/253991513577?epid=13026160130&hash=item3b2312ede9:g:14AAAOSw3npb9AuN:rk:8f:0

 

[696DCRider]

Did you file a police report? You should. It’s not vandalism; it’s attempted theft. People try to steal bikes all the time and aren’t always successful.


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[forsythem]

Yeah, damage to an ignition key on a bike is attempted theft, not vandalism. Unless your insurance doesn't cover theft, I'd be going there first as well.
Can't help with the question otherwise, though.

 

[Justin Hershberger]

I reported it to the police. Another motorcycle was stolen in the area and think it was the same but no fingerprints or anything to tie to mine. Probably won't catch anyone for mine but they know who did the other.

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[duc96cr]

I’d get a police report and give it to your insurance company. Sounds as if you’re going to need an obvious theft deterrent, like a loud alarm or a big chain, or both.

 

[ducvet]

I think you will be buying a new ignition,lockset,ecu/and or dash. The tip of trying a locksmith first is a good one, see if they can make a new tumbler to fit your keys. If not you will either need to send your ecu off to get the immobilizer removed or made virgin again or buy a complete set.

A customer with a street fighter had to buy a new lockset and dash for $1800.00

If it is a weber marelli you might be able to remove the immobilizer and then any lock will work, continental I do not think will be an option but it would be the next best bet.

Ebay may have a complete set from a salvaged bike be sure to get enough keys as you may not be able to make more. Aren't Immobilizers great? Look at your comprehensive insurance and see if theft is covered there.


Edit*** tape a existing key to the antenna and use any ignition that will plug into your harness. as long as the antenna picks up the signal from the key the new ignition should start and run the bike. I do this on race bikes when we cannot remove the immobilizer and want to use a toggle switch instead of a key in the system****

They used to hang horse thieves right?

 

[dspear99ca]

I think you will be buying a new ignition,lockset,ecu/and or dash. The tip of trying a locksmith first is a good one, see if they can make a new tumbler to fit your keys. If not you will either need to send your ecu off to get the immobilizer removed or made virgin again or buy a complete set.

Edit*** tape a existing key to the antenna and use any ignition that will plug into your harness. as long as the antenna picks up the signal from the key the new ignition should start and run the bike. I do this on race bikes when we cannot remove the immobilizer and want to use a toggle switch instead of a key in the system****

Rather than a whole key, you can remove the transponder from a working key and do as ducvet suggests... I have seen folks JB Weld the tiny transponder to the steering tube or to the lockset itself.

It's my understanding that it's the key transponder - ECU - dash which all need to be mated. And as long as you have a red key or code card you can set up your ECU/dash to pair with new keys. Or, and this is even simpler, get another lockset and keys and move the transponders from your old (working) keys to the new ones. There is a transponder antenna located on/in/around the lockset area to pick up the key signal with wiring back to the ECU, but the lockset itself isn't anything special and you should be able to replace it with an OEM new part or part from a wreck, i.e. eBay, etc. Forgive me if I'm mistaken, I have not worked on Monsters but have owned several other Ducati bikes with immobilizers and have had to do similar to what you're faced with. I do not think you need to replace or re-virginize anything other than the broken lockset.

 

[696DCRider]

Rather than a whole key, you can remove the transponder from a working key and do as ducvet suggests... I have seen folks JB Weld the tiny transponder to the steering tube or to the lockset itself.



It's my understanding that it's the key transponder - ECU - dash which all need to be mated. And as long as you have a red key or code card you can set up your ECU/dash to pair with new keys. Or, and this is even simpler, get another lockset and keys and move the transponders from your old (working) keys to the new ones. There is a transponder antenna located on/in/around the lockset area to pick up the key signal with wiring back to the ECU, but the lockset itself isn't anything special and you should be able to replace it with an OEM new part or part from a wreck, i.e. eBay, etc. Forgive me if I'm mistaken, I have not worked on Monsters but have owned several other Ducati bikes with immobilizers and have had to do similar to what you're faced with. I do not think you need to replace or re-virginize anything other than the broken lockset.

I was just looking into getting a copy of my key for my 999 recently and I don’t have the red key. I read the same sort of stuff. I don’t think you need to replace the whole set of stuff but I may be mistaken myself. . If it were me, I would report to insurance and maybe they total the bike, and you just buy it back for cheap. But most likely they cut you a check for the cost of said components and you pocket it and just fix it yourself.


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[hypermo]

2009 Monster 696 has the same Immobilizer as the Hyper 1100 and Sport Classics the key
code and dash are locked to each other the ECU only has Immobilizer on or off function.
Immobilizer on in ECU check for matching codes, Immobilizer off start w/o checking codes.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10140276-9999.pdf

 

[696DCRider]

https://ducatipartsunlimited.com/p/duc-101

This page shows what each type of system is tied to. You can see that some bikes systems are tied to the ignition but for the 999, it is only the key, the ecu, and the gauges that are locked to one another; not the ignition.


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[Justin Hershberger]

Ok I thought I had it figured out but now I am confused. AMS Ducati in Dallas (where I order parts online) told me I can just order a new ignition tumbler set with new keys and then after I install it take it to the dealer to have it programmed to the ecu. Is this not correct?
I've also thought about a used set that comes with a gas cap, seat lock, and ecu. If I do that I should be able to just replace all without reprogramming, correct?

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[696DCRider]

Ok I thought I had it figured out but now I am confused. AMS Ducati in Dallas (where I order parts online) told me I can just order a new ignition tumbler set with new keys and then after I install it take it to the dealer to have it programmed to the ecu. Is this not correct?
I've also thought about a used set that comes with a gas cap, seat lock, and ecu. If I do that I should be able to just replace all without reprogramming, correct?

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It is a bit confusing. But what Ducati Dallas means is that with your existing key they can match the programming of the chip in the new key which matches the new ignition.

This used to be only possible if you have the red key but now they have cloning machines. So basically if you have a key to your bike they can program the same code into another key.

So what they are saying makes sense. What you want to avoid is also having to replace the ecu and gauges due to just a broken ignition. That is where it starts to get expensive.


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[Justin Hershberger]

It is a bit confusing. But what Ducati Dallas means is that with your existing key they can match the programming of the chip in the new key which matches the new ignition.

This used to be only possible if you have the red key but now they have cloning machines. So basically if you have a key to your bike they can program the same code into another key.

So what they are saying makes sense. What you want to avoid is also having to replace the ecu and gauges due to just a broken ignition. That is where it starts to get expensive.


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OK. Thank you. That is good, because I bought it used and only have two black keys and it was my first Ducati and didn't know about the red key and key card.

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[Justin Hershberger]

This just struck me. If I buy a new tumbler peice and keep my old gas cap and have the old key on the keychain that holds the new key in the ignition, will this fool the ecu and avoid the reprogram?

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[696DCRider]

This just struck me. If I buy a new tumbler peice and keep my old gas cap and have the old key on the keychain that holds the new key in the ignition, will this fool the ecu and avoid the reprogram?

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I would think so based on the idea that the detection doesn’t exist in the actual tumbler. You could always just try. Plenty of local locksmiths should have the same ability to clone the code onto the new key as Ducati of Dallas says they do. I think they just need to have the machine that is used to clone GM keys I believe. This is a list of the specific cloning machines that will do it:
Ilco/Silca - RW2 or RW3, Strattec - Quick code, Jet – Smart clone, Bianchi - Repli-code

Only reason I know all this is because I bought a 999 with no red key and was researching how to get a copy so I have a backup key. But mine is track duty only so I may not bother.


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[ducvet]

With a 999 it is easy to shut off (different than a virgin) the immobilizer with software, then you can get any key cut fit or in the case of a track bike use a toggle switch.

IIRC the 696 does not use a weber marelli ECU so this software will not do the job. I am not sure if guzzi diag will or not. If the lock tumblers and keys can be bought/swapped then you should also be able to change the key transmitters bringing the bike back to what it was before. If I had the option I would pay more money and have the immobilizer removed/shut off, Often when the system works as designed the bike is dead in the water if you crash and simply break the dash (or have corrosion ) which does happen.

On the Weber Marelli bikes I have removed immobilizers on the bike will then start and run without a dash which means two things.
1. if you break the dash or the part fails from corrosion, it still will run and get you home.
2. replacement parts do not need to be new and keyed so you can buy used parts from other bikes or even aftermarket some times.

 

[696DCRider]

With a 999 it is easy to shut off (different than a virgin) the immobilizer with software, then you can get any key cut fit or in the case of a track bike use a toggle switch.



IIRC the 696 does not use a weber marelli ECU so this software will not do the job. I am not sure if guzzi diag will or not. If the lock tumblers and keys can be bought/swapped then you should also be able to change the key transmitters bringing the bike back to what it was before. If I had the option I would pay more money and have the immobilizer removed/shut off, Often when the system works as designed the bike is dead in the water if you crash and simply break the dash (or have corrosion ) which does happen.



On the Weber Marelli bikes I have removed immobilizers on the bike will then start and run without a dash which means two things.

1. if you break the dash or the part fails from corrosion, it still will run and get you home.

2. replacement parts do not need to be new and keyed so you can buy used parts from other bikes or even aftermarket some times.

Will the jpdiag software work to shut off the immobilizer? I used it on my 1200r but I haven’t tried to hook anything up to my 999 yet.


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[ducvet]

I do believe it can shut off the imobilizer but I use tuneecu for the 999 most of the time as it is more straight forward (easier to do).

 

[dspear99ca]

This just struck me. If I buy a new tumbler peice and keep my old gas cap and have the old key on the keychain that holds the new key in the ignition, will this fool the ecu and avoid the reprogram?

Yes. This will work.

No, JPDiag will not disable the immobilizer, you need to modify your existing firmware file, or find a pre-modified file with immo disabled and flash your ECU with the modified file. There are several online services that will do this for you if you're not inclined to do it yourself.

You can get your key existing RF cloned, call around. Unless you're in a major metropolitan area you may be out of luck locally. Again, lots of places online will do the cloning for you. As I noted in an earlier post, you can also physically move the transponder chip yourself, it's not hard and requires no special tools.