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Hey folks,

Any intetest in having Keith Code join us for a Q & A session regadring "proper" cornering techniques. Keith is an expert in the field as you all know...

Let me know and if so, I'll set it up.. :=}

Brian
 

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Another idea. If Keith and his CSS want to become sponsoring members of the forum, they could have their own forum with a logo where they could post schedules and repond to questions.

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Premium Vendors may post their products or services in an exclusive sub-forum with their vendor logo for view by the Ducati.ms members. PREMIUM Vendor subscription at $120.00 per year billed annually (that's only $10.00 per month).
 

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Chuckracer said:
The only problem with doing it in live chat is that Keith's responses are lost when you close the window. If you do them here, it's not quite real time, but the questions and Keith's answers are here for others to read.
I agree with that, everyone may not be able to participate at the same time and I think it would be more respectful of Keith's time if he can respond at his leisure.

It will be a great honor to have someone of his caliber available here on Ducati.ms. I'm honored! There are a thousand things I would like to ask him but I guess I'll have to contain myself. I think it's great that not only was he interested in riding dynamics at an early age but that he followed his interest and curiosity through with research to test his theories and further his understanding of such an esoteric subject. The fact that his is willing to share his knowledge and experience with us is just icing on the cake!
 

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Very honored that you'd post here, codedog.

So many questions I'd love to ask, but I'm already flummoxed trying to understand all you have written in your books. I'll keep working at it. :D

What do you think of traction control, and other electronic aids in racing? To me, I don't think I like these systems replacing human skills I can only dream about having.


:)
 
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this is where I'm at in my cornering....

No, I don't know. I have no idea. I just go, "Hmmm, Wow! That seems to work." And then I dont really think that much about it after that. There wasn't any particular sense of discovery or anything like that. I think I got it, and I went, "Oh, that kinda works. Interesting." And I just continue to ride.

I feel when I listen to 100 different people It confuses me so I block them out of my head and block of my msn because I cant take what they are telling me constantly, it seems every one has an answer to the way you ride or what you should be riding. I dont understand how people tell me 'dont ride that ducati, get a kawasaki or a yamaha. Does it make a difference what I ride, in 2 years if I want to buy a kawasaki and ride both I WILL.
One person takes me around the track to show me my lines I should be using, then the next person takes me around, then the next, and all their lines are different, and they all say 'use these lines'.
Now all this has me putting honda decals on my ducati because really 'who cares'

I can see myself going a crazzy speed around the track and I just try and keep hoping I will eventually get there by moving my points in the grass up evey time, lean in, hit my lines, and pray I dont fall, also I pray that God will turn me into a better rider by giving me info from ABOVE into my mind.
By doing that the more the markers move up in my imagination the bike shakes, which made me get rid of my 749 and get an R, 'maybe the suspention will be better', and it is.
My one problem I think I have is I think about a bunch of things while I'm riding which causes me to drift off.....
which more and more I'm starting to recognize the root to that problem, which is my problem, the battle of my mind.
I have never encountered some thing more challenging rather then my own self. :D

any pointers?
 

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Thanks to the efforts of BrianMDavis (take a bow, Brian!), you can now ask your riding and technique related questions here and get a response direct form Keith Code!

Keith will be stopping by from time to time to answer our questions, depart some wisdom, and maybe help to keep us all out of the ditches/haybales!

This is a terrific opportunity for us all, and I'm sure everybody will treat Keith with the respect he deserves. Lets keep the banter to a minimum so one won't have to wade through pages of conversation to find the good info one is looking for.

If you don't know who Keith Code is, a quick Google search should clear that right up...so without further ado, Ask Keith Code!
 

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Ok let me start off. Might be a newbie racer question, but I am asking anyway.

I visited a Supermoto course today and the host was talking all about how to brake late and turn in on a Supermoto.

Now that I actually road race bikes on Europe´s race tracks, I am wondering how I can increase my speeds and laptimes in terms of braking into corners and getting on the throttle quickly.

Is there a special technique in order to maintain high corner entry and exit speed and to have enough grip?

From my very short racing experience I understand that the body position is a main factor while running into corners. I see a lot of racers braking really late and getting on the throttle a lot sooner than I am able to do it at my current level. Most often I think if I would do the same, I might be running wide or lose my rear wheel.

Maybe you have some input for me here.

Thanks for your attention and spare time!

Greetings from northern Germany,

Benjamin
 

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Keith,
How do I stop high-siding my bike? Every time I crash, its due to a high-side, and I get injured each time.

In each crash, I know the cause: old tires, oil on rear tire, cold spot on track, wet spot on track. But each crash is pretty much the same, rear end steps out exiting the corner on the throttle, I instinctively chop the throttle and next thing I know, I am flying through the air.

It's kind of hard to tell your right hand to stay on the gas when the rear end has stepped out so far. What should I do?

Thanks!
Brian
 

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Motobee said:
It's kind of hard to tell your right hand to stay on the gas when the rear end has stepped out so far. What should I do?
Hey, Brian, I know this was a question for Mr. Code, but I think you gave yourself the answer right there: tell your right hand to stay on the gas when the rear end steps out. Obviously, some high-sides can't be saved. The first key is to not let it happen in the first place by being smoother on the throttle, but in the cases you cite -- oil on the track and what-not -- where it can't be avoided, you have to just try to ride it out without sacrificing smoothness. It seems to me that the "survival instinct" of chopping the throttle is the culprit.

My advice would be to put yourself on a training regimen where the rear slides frequently -- like in the dirt. Practice spinning up the rear and letting it step out and condition yourself to stay on the throttle until you can get the rear tire back in line with the front. Schools like American Supercamp and Rich Oliver's Mystery School -- where they do lots of dirt track training -- come to mind as good venues. I think Supercamp is even doing Supermoto now, which will let you mess around with breaking the rear loose on pavement as well as dirt.

I'm sure Keith's school devotes some time to rear end slides, too. The best thing you can do is cause the slide as often as possible under controlled conditions and train yourself to where you're prepared to react correctly when that unexpected rear end step-out happens on the pavement.

Hope that helps. And I hope I'm not stepping on Keith's toes by responding like this. If I am, smack me down, mea culpa, and I'll shut up. :)
 

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Responses to questions

Hello everyone and thanks again for having me on the Ducati.MS forum I hope I can be of help.

Anyone who has been out to my school knows that myself and my coaching staff try to keep the riders involved and thinking by asking them how they see what they are doing. I didn't invent this, it's the Socratic style of schooling. The only difference in how we do it is no one is trying to "win" the argument.

So here we go on some of the questions asked:


Dragon lady

Taking into account all the times you "lucked out" and got something right, as you said in your post: Is there one aspect of riding you really feel you do understand--One thing that you can consistently repeat/get it right/feel confident about?

Ben 710

Take another look at your post and see if you can count up the number of subjects you covered in it. When I look at it I see eleven different subjects that you are considering/talking about. Now what I'd like you to do is pick one of them.

Motobee

I defer to Rob on this one, he has answered it as well as a broad question like that can be answered. If your quetion was, "how do I stop getting speeding tickets"? The simple answer would be slow down but that wouldn't handle it.
What might handle it is picking particular spots to exceed the speed limit and find the others where you shouldn't. It could be worked out and a plan made.

I don't want to seem like I'm unwilling to answer because I am willing. But think about this: A really well crafted question contains the answer if you have someone who will help you go that extra step to find it.

The more defined and refined the question is the more refined and defined can be the answer (or the next question that uncovers more of the problem or solution).

I'm trying to lay some ground rules here I guess but more than that I'd like you to think through what you want to know. I hope that seems fair. Once you can do it that way for yourself, you won't need me...

Keith
 

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Mr. Code, thank you again for taking the time to share and expound on some of your teachings with us, it's GREATLY appreciated by all.

I'm concerned primarily with my corner entry speed. Without going into great detail, suffice it to say that I KNOW I can enter into a given corner much faster than where I'm currently comfortable, it's both a matter of re-training myself to ignore my survival reactions as well as learning the limits of the bike/tire/corner themselves.

My question is thus: How do I safely increase my corner entry speed by using a methodical, quantifiable method (rather than simply being told 'try it faster next time') that can provide enough feedback for further evaluation and improvement?'

As a sidenote, I'm planning on taking one of your classes (Edit: I'm fairly sure this is the answer to my question) at the Barber Motorsports Park in Alabama this year and look forward to meeting you in person. Thanks again.
 
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codedog said:
Dragon lady
Taking into account all the times you "lucked out" and got something right, as you said in your post: Is there one aspect of riding you really feel you do understand--One thing that you can consistently repeat/get it right/feel confident about?
my lines..
entrance repeat/right apex/confident exit
just something very simple....
 

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Mapless said:
Mr. Code, thank you again for taking the time to share and expound on some of your teachings with us, it's GREATLY appreciated by all.

I'm concerned primarily with my corner entry speed. Without going into great detail, suffice it to say that I KNOW I can enter into a given corner much faster than where I'm currently comfortable, it's both a matter of re-training myself to ignore my survival reactions as well as learning the limits of the bike/tire/corner themselves.

My question is thus: How do I safely increase my corner entry speed by using a methodical, quantifiable method (rather than simply being told 'try it faster next time') that can provide enough feedback for further evaluation and improvement?'

As a sidenote, I'm planning on taking one of your classes (Edit: I'm fairly sure this is the answer to my question) at the Barber Motorsports Park in Alabama this year and look forward to meeting you in person. Thanks again.
Thanks buddy, that kept me from rephrasing my question ;)
 

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codedog said:
Motobee

I defer to Rob on this one, he has answered it as well as a broad question like that can be answered.
Oooo, I'm flattered! :D

Forgive me also for failing in my moderatorly duties of properly welcoming Mr. Code to our humble little forum. I know I speak for all the forum officials when I say that we're honored to have you here and grateful that you're willing to take some time out from what must be a very busy schedule to share your experience and expertise with our membership.
 

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Hi Keith, a pleasure to have you here!

This is more of a theoretical question related to different chassis geometries (probably mostly the amount of trail). I know you have explored the physics of counter-steering but I've never seen this particular subject discussed elsewhere.

The following questions relate to steering a motorcycle through a tight chicane, specifically the transition from left lean to right lean. We know quicker steering motorcycles will require less counter-steering force to make the transition and that wider bars can reduce the force required (simply be providing more leverage) to steer a slower-steering motorcycle through the transition. I'm wondering two things:

1) Does a sharp counter-steering input use up some of the available traction. In other words, is it possible to countersteer so forcefully that traction is lost simply because the input was too quick?

2) If so, how does the trail of the front wheel affect this. In other words, would a slower steering motorcycle with more trail break traction easier in this situation?

This is something I've wondered about for many years. If sharp counter steering does use up some of the available traction, what is the best way to manage it? I understand the concept of riding smoothly but, as the pace picks up the transition in the middle of a tight chicane requires more force. Will a faster steering motorcycle always be able to make the transition more quickly for reasons of available traction or, given enough leverage on the bars, could a slower steering motorcycle make the transition just as quickly?

I mention trail because I suspect it may be one of the most important variables here but maybe rake, the weight of the wheels, gyroscopic forces of the engine, the wheelbase and/or other factors are too important not to discuss. And for clarity, I'm not so interested in which of these variables make the bike FEEL slower steering, rather which ones (if any) actually limit the speed of transition that is possible, assuming the rider is strong enough to countersteer as forcefully as necessary? If you have time and the inclination, I am also interested in how the orientation of the engine in the chassis might affect this, i.e., a BMW twin vs. a Ducati, especially as it relates to traction required in the middle of a chicane.

I hope these questions are not too theoretical to be of interest and that the subject matter is somewhat broad. If it's too broad feel free to discuss only the part(s) you feel are the most interesting or significant.
 

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Keith Code... welcome and what a pleasure to have you here! I have many questions, but am enjoying enough just reading.
 

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Keith, it's very nice to have you here. I don't have any questions right at this time. I did want to thank you. After years of riding, and a couple racing, I read your book, A twist of the wrist II. It opened my eyes,(scanning) and allowed me to examine and change my riding style 100%. After reading your book 30 or 40 times, I am usually able to figure out what I am doing wrong when I have trouble with a corner or section. Thank you for putting into words, not only the technical points of riding, but also the "feel" of it.
Matt
 

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Mike said:
1) Does a sharp counter-steering input use up some of the available traction. In other words, is it possible to countersteer so forcefully that traction is lost simply because the input was too quick?
Mike - I've been through 4 of Keith's schools now, and he actually addressed this particular point with us during Level 1 while teaching the value of quick-steering the bike at your turn-in point. Somebody asked this very thing. Keith asked, "So, have any of you ever known anybody to crash because they turned their motorcycle too quickly?" We all answered "No." Keith said, "Well, neither have I." Your other question on trail is an interesting one that I hope Keith answers.

Keith - Welcome! It's great to have you in our little cyber-world. I have learned a great deal from your superbike schools and books, and look forward to corresponding with you here. BTW, glad to see you've added Blackhawk again for 2007. See you there!
 
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