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That bike is beautiful.......I seriously don't see where you could chop any more weight from it though......
 

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Retired Pipe Polisher C2H6O+
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OK, I'm going to play devil's advocate and piss everyone off. I think that frame looks like crap. The welds look like a first year welding school dropout did them. If you want to see how it should look go to some of the highend bicycle shops and look at some of the Ti framed bikes. You just won't believe the difference. Sorry :eek:
 

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OK, I'm going to play devil's advocate and piss everyone off. I think that frame looks like crap. The welds look like a first year welding school dropout did them. If you want to see how it should look go to some of the highend bicycle shops and look at some of the Ti framed bikes. You just won't believe the difference. Sorry :eek:
(make room DuckMan)

Agreed. The wife and I have a couple of Titus Racer-X titanium mountainbikes welded by the semi-famous TIG welding genius Sean Kennedy. That's the quality I would expect in a Monster frame that is intended to be the basis of a $30K bike. Perhaps I'll post a close up pic of the weld quality we're expecting to see....

....now on the other hand, if the welds were better and the frame was bit better fit to some of the body work or tank, I'd be drooling for that frame.
 

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Agreed...a friend of mine has two Seven bikes. That's a whole 'nother world in welding. Pure art.

Weld quality and price tag aside...it's a cool bike. I'm not buying it, however.
 

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Damn! I thought I was going to get blasted for this.

I guess if you compare that frame to the stock steel frames the workmanship is ok. But that's not good enough at this price point. Here's some pix of my Serotta. This Ti frame has been glass beaded but the welds are not ground down in any way to make them look better. The unfinished models look just the same but shiny.

And your right Chuck, it's still a cool bike.



 

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Well, not that I'm an expert on welding or anything... I can see the difference in the flow of the welds in the pics vs. the one just posted here. Is it possible, however, that the welding on the bike frame was done a little differently (ie: thicker) for extra strength to support the weight and power of the motor/overall bike as opposed to the bicycle frame which doesn't have to support much more than the rider? Like I said, I'm no expert...I'm planning to go to school soon to learn how to do this.
 

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Welds aside, to me, the bike doesn't look finished, kind of cobby looking. Other than that though, I can appreciate the amount of work that went into it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Ya'll weren't complaining about the welds when you elected it bike of the month.. :p
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=42279

I guess I can agree to a certain extent that there is no comparison in quality of those welds to the ones posted above on the bicycle frame, I'm a sucker for unique bikes...
I'm actually also wondering the same as Artisimo, different welding due to different forces?
 

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Well, I didn't and wouldn't vote for it. And the highest bid was $10,600. -That's about what I could get for my 2008 Hypermotard S. I guess it wasn't as special as they thought.
 

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About the strength of the welds. For sure I'm no expert on welding either but I think I remember reading somewhere that the strength of a weld is in the penetration of the materials at the joint itself and not in the extra material glopped on top of it. If a true expert would step in and correct me it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all.
 

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One important thing to remember here is that Doug was building these in a garage on top of his tool box. The welds are actually very good quality and if the color was buffed off of them you could see them better. Doug was an aero space welder for 30 years and believe me his skills could go up against the best welders in the world. He was a tubing welder for Lewis and Saunders which fabricated parts for rocket engines for the military and NASA. He was building these frames with no special tools, welding in the open (not in a protected atmosphere) and all of this in a 500 sqft space. If Mike could post some other photos or some shots of the exhaust welding I know you would be impressed. The welding on the Bicycle frames is pure art, no arguing that it is super impressive but those guys have a lot of tools, equipment and space at their disposal. That frame weighs 7 pounds and the stock SS frame it replaced weighed 32, it is impressive plus it is a lot stiffer than the stock steel frame.
 

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I've read an awful lot of posts about Doug and ARC over the years. I have to say, this is the first time I have ever seen anyone even approach questioning the quality of his work. And for that matter, I've certainly never seen it questioned by anyone who had actually seen his work in person or owned any delivered product. Just my two cents, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
 

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Arc

My 610 Husky was a pre ARC fab Doug Cook project. It was built so light that mounting brackets and sub frame members were constantly breaking. The original aluminum swing arm cracked in 7 places. The upper shock mount ripped itself out of the frame cross member. In fairness, this bike was built to be light! 220 lbs. wet. A new chrome moly swing arm by Paul Hewitt in Toronto solved one issue. A bolt on subframe by me replaced the welded on original that was 1/2'' { new one is 1 1/4"}. Chris Hale replaced the broken shock mount and repaired the cracked exhaust system many times. It is important to note that the welds never broke, the parent material right next to the weld did! This is not uncommon with thin materials. Doug was a BCM employee at the time this bike was built. I did not pay him for it as it was a deal worked out between myself and cousin Brucie. The bike has been both frustrating and a hoot since I took delivery. It is still a work in progress.
 

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The welds are actually very good quality and if the color was buffed off of them you could see them better.
That was my thought - the welds themselves looked pretty good, it's that they were raw and unfinished (not polished).
 

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One important thing to remember here is that Doug was building these in a garage on top of his tool box. The welds are actually very good quality and if the color was buffed off of them you could see them better. Doug was an aero space welder for 30 years and believe me his skills could go up against the best welders in the world. He was a tubing welder for Lewis and Saunders which fabricated parts for rocket engines for the military and NASA. He was building these frames with no special tools, welding in the open (not in a protected atmosphere) and all of this in a 500 sqft space. If Mike could post some other photos or some shots of the exhaust welding I know you would be impressed. The welding on the Bicycle frames is pure art, no arguing that it is super impressive but those guys have a lot of tools, equipment and space at their disposal. That frame weighs 7 pounds and the stock SS frame it replaced weighed 32, it is impressive plus it is a lot stiffer than the stock steel frame.
Congrats to him but....

If the welds weren’t shielded on both sides during the welding process -- they are NOT good welds when it comes to Ti -- any pro should know this, because they WILL be contaminated - no matter how much penetration, in fact if the weld penetrates to the other side, even more reason the back side needs shielding. Stainless suffers the same issues, just not quite as sensitive but will leave a nasty (contaminated) finish on the opposite side.

Also if shielded/welded correctly, no “Buffing” required……

My $0.02...
 

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I hear airplanes
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I'm NOT a Ti welder, I've only played with the stuff a few times.

To my knowledge, the weld puddles on Ti will turn colors if they are not post-weld treated/purged until they cool below 300 deg. If they are allowed to react with the atmosphere before cooling, they turn all kinds of pretty colors.

Whether or not that affects the strength I'm not here to say (or debate), just why the welds turn colors.

Nice bike...but why not grab the NCR Ti 1098 frame off ebay for 10K, and then you'ld really have a 30K bike when you were done building!
 

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I hear airplanes
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Congrats to him but....

If the welds weren’t shielded on both sides during the welding process -- they are NOT good welds when it comes to Ti -- any pro should know this, because they WILL be contaminated - no matter how much penetration, in fact if the weld penetrates to the other side, even more reason the back side needs shielding. Stainless suffers the same issues, just not quite as sensitive but will leave a nasty (contaminated) finish on the opposite side.

Also if shielded/welded correctly, no “Buffing” required……

My $0.02...
LOL, 1 minute before I posted nearly the same thing :D
 
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