Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner
  • Hey Everyone! Enter your bike HERE to be a part of this months Bike of the Month Challenge!
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just replaced my clutch in my 2000 996. Everything is working fine except for one thing the tech says. During the test ride, as he's sitting at a signal light waiting for it to change green, the clutch lever is pulled back fully, the bike starts to creep forward on him and eventually stalls as he has to apply the brake waiting for the green light. I never had that problem. Of course, I sit in neutral with the clutch out until the light turns green. At that point, pull the clutch, kick it into gear and let the clutch out. I don't sit at the light waiting for 2-3 minutes with the clutch fully pulled.

I have an aftermarket magura radial master cylinder clutch and front brake.

The tech says the clutch master cylinder is not holding the pressure and that's why the bike wants to roll forward. He suggests a new clutch radial master cylinder.

Any of you guys have this happen to you and if so what's the deal??

I guess I'm gonna buy a new set of brembo radial master cylinder clutch and front brake. (I don't have to like it though)

By the way, I am being told to purchase a 16x18 clutch master and a 19x18 brake master.

The 16x18 is somewhat hard to find and a couple of people suggested to get 19x18 for the clutch too.

Any experience with the different sizes??

Looking forward to your input.

Thanks.

V.Muth
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I haven't picked up the bike yet. I would presume the system was bled when the clutch was replaced. The tech did say that my slave cylinder had a slight leak so he replaced the seal. That being the case, I would assume he bled the system.

V.Muth
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
I would not be replacing the clutch M/C just yet. You are difinitely however experinecing some leaking at seals in the m/c, slave cylinder and or hydraulic lines. Since DOT4 hydraulic fluid is HIGHLY corrosive, you should definitely track down the exact source/location of the leaking seal, asap.

While most clutch hydraulic failures on Ducs occur at the slave cylinder, i suspect yours may actually be at the m/c. The reason is fairly simple; unless you purchased the Magura radial m/c specifically for a Duc, it was likely not intended for usage on a DOT4 hydraulic system. Magura uses hydraulic mineral oil in their hydraulic clutch systems and their m/c would be designed for mineral oil, not DOT4 fluid. The seals will fail. The good news is that if this is the source of the problem, repair is very simple and FAR less costly than a new Brembo radial m/c. Have tech disassemble m/c and inspect seals. If they appear swollen, slimey and leeching black color, the seals are not compatible w/DOT4 fluid and need to be replaced with Viton seals (o-rings). Should be very easily sourced from Magura or even most machine shops.

You should also re-check the slave cylinder seal integrity. I believe that bike was the subject of the slave cylinder recall that occurred in 2000-2001. If that recall has not beed done, it should be done and your clutch hydraulics problems will soon disappear. You may also consider upgrading to an Evoluzione slave cylinder which can offer reduced effort, better feel and much better durability. Take care
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I don't know if he measured the stack height. I am not well versed with the ducati's at all. I would assume he did all that was needed to install the new clutch properly.

I will ask him to re-bleed the clutch however after getting some of these replies. Which by the way is greaty appreciated and very helpful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
311 Posts
My 916 is experiencing the exact same symptoms. The tech was probably holding the clutch lever in because he couldn't get it into neutral. I tried bleeding the system which did not help. I also pulled my realitively new clutch plates and swapped them for the older worn set and that didn't help much, either. So, my next move is to tear down the MC and see what's going on with the seals. The slave is new so hopefully that isn't the issue. I'll follow up with details on the MC rebuild.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Please do!!! I need to get all these bugs out of my bike so I can feel confident with it. Nothing worse than buying a used bike, have it break down the first time out, get things fixed only to find more things wrong with it and then have it linger.

Look forward to your post.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
311 Posts
well...........

I rebuilt the clutch MC today. Unfortunately, it didn't help much. The clutch isn't sticking like it was before, but I still can't get the bike into neutral when at a stop. If I'm cruising at around 20-30 MPH, it's no problem, but once I come to a stop it won't go into neutral. I guess my next move it to measure the stack height and the pushrod throw to make sure I'm at least getting enough travel in the pushrod. It's possible there is more air in the line but the lever feels pretty firm so I'd be surprised if it's enough to make a difference. Stay tuned...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Nuetral usually has to do with the thickness of the clutch plates in the pak... I had a similar problem, it was difficult to find nuetral. If that is the only problem give it a few miles to break in. It should settle in after a couple hundred miles
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well, i've had my bike back for a couple of weeks and it seems to be fine. It's been riden twice for about an hour each. The shifting is easy. I tried doing what the mechanic said which is sitting with the clutch lever fully pulled and the clutch fully disengaged for about a minute at a light. The bike didn't seem like it wanted to roll forward at all or feel like it was gonna stall. I must mention though that I only did it 3 times, each for a minute or so. The only problem I incurred was finding neutral after that minute. It seems that I would just pass it no matter how much i tried finessing it. I'd have to shut the bike off and then it went into neutral fine.

Realistically it's not a problem for me though since I usually sit at a light in neutral.

Keeping my fingers crossed that the bike gives me no more problems. Now I need to focus on getting more time to ride and bettering my rusty riding skills. It's been 11 years and I'm soooooooooo much older now.

Please keep us informed on your project.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
I had a similar issue when I replaced my clutch pack in my 748. I didn't check the stack height or anything, but when I test rode it, it wanted to roll while in gear with my clutch pulled in. So I did a couple of hard/high rev launches and its perfect now :) I'm thinking that the new fiber rings had some extra fat that needed to be trimmed off.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
250 Posts
I'm experiencing one of the symptoms you guys mention on my 03 749s- the issue where you have the clutch pulled in completly and the bike rolls forward.

I went for a long trip and it the clutch seems to have failed about 600 miles into my ride. Is the root cause potentially the slave cylinder?

Addtional issues:
1) Clutch lever has almost no tension- it only engages at about 1 inch away from the handlebar when I pull it in, when previously the action was quite firm
2) I have to slam it into gear hard- the gear shifter will not let me shift sometimes even with the clutch pulled all the way in. I have to put all my weight on the gear selector when downshifting.
3) Hydraulic fluid in the resovoir looks old (dark) but at the right level
4) I noticed the slave cylinder and clutch cover were extremely hot to the touch when I stopped- not sure if overheating was an issue? I have stock slave cylinder and stock clutch cover

Lastly- could banging it into gear without much cluch damage the transmission?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Fariborz said:
Read this post about hard finding neutral:

Hard Finding Neutral and difficulty in shifting

-Fariborz
It usually requires riding to improve the clutch operation enough to easily find neutral If you want the best cheapest easiestto find neutral longest lasting reduced production of clutch dust go to a jap bike shop and buy friction plates from a ----- four cylinder and use these with the stock duc steel plates, yes I know that these plates are from a jap 4cylinder wet (oil bath clutch) SO WHAT!! THEY WORK BETTER FOR LONGER THAN A LOT OF THE O.E.M. AND AFTER MARKET RUBBISH (turn $$$$$ to dust)

Also the drive ears fit oem hub perfectly but diameter between drive lugs is slightly less which made me worry about how concentric they would remain in the basket??? no worries ;- if you concider the geometry of lugs they stay put work perfectly are quieter last longer and self clean have better modulation for first gear take offs ( dont need to reduce engine sprocket) just slip the clutch!!! sound like bullshit email me and I will tell you what bike and model-- I have other ideas so I dont want this diseminated to those that arent prepared to try the Idea
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
breakout said:
It usually requires riding to improve the clutch operation enough to easily find neutral If you want the best cheapest easiestto find neutral longest lasting reduced production of clutch dust go to a jap bike shop and buy friction plates from a ----- four cylinder and use these with the stock duc steel plates, yes I know that these plates are from a jap 4cylinder wet (oil bath clutch) SO WHAT!! THEY WORK BETTER FOR LONGER THAN A LOT OF THE O.E.M. AND AFTER MARKET RUBBISH (turn $$$$$ to dust)

Also the drive ears fit oem hub perfectly but diameter between drive lugs is slightly less which made me worry about how concentric they would remain in the basket??? no worries ;- if you concider the geometry of lugs they stay put work perfectly are quieter last longer and self clean have better modulation for first gear take offs ( dont need to reduce engine sprocket) just slip the clutch!!! sound like bullshit!!! email me and I will tell you what bike and model-- I have other ideas so I dont want this diseminated to those that arent prepared to try the Idea
check the lift stroke , plate flatness,assembled height, use of cone plates to separate clutch pack and the coincidence of groving in basket to drive lugs on plates if lugs on new plates line up with ends of previous grooving this may cause clutch drag which makes it difficult breakout to find neutral. want easy neutrals and smooth take offs and long life cheaply send me $5 us and I will tell you how to tranform your bike!!!!ha!ha! ps plates are aluminium!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,108 Posts
red ryder. Your problem sounds like a seized bearing on your pressure plate! If your getting a real hot slave the push rod is likely spinning due to a seized bearing which would cause the fluid to boil. Once it boils you have vapor in the system and it does act like air.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
slipper clutch problems...

First thing first.....the order and overall stack height of the friction and clutch disks is crucial! If you don't have this paperwork, call whoever you bought this clutch from....if you can't find it - I'll do some digging and get it for you. Next thing to know, clutches get very hot, especially dry clutches so you might be experienceing some issues with expansion. If the slave cylinder is shot - and most of them are - I had a 2000 996 and had to replace my slave cylinder right away....then you will need to rebuild the slave cylinder with some new seals or get an aftermarket item. Also double check that the push rod is not broken and properly lubbed on both end with some lithium white grease paint! You should be all set after that! One last thing, make sure the outer pressure plate is properly mated up with the inner hub of the clutch housing. There should be no gap between the clutch plates and the pressure plate and also make sure to use locktite on all the bolts. I recommend the high temp red for the inner bolts and center bolt and the medium grade for the springs.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top