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Bon Vivant
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10,490 Posts
Last update from me - turns out the dealer who was going to charge was mis-informed by Duc NA - labor is NOT to be charged - the entire replacement is free of charge. They apologized and are making it right with me to keep my business (50% discount of a new Panigale Tricolore - I wish :D ) - just kidding of course , they are taking care of me and the owner called me personally to explain what happened. Duc NA even called to make sure I was having them do the replacement. So all is well in the metroplex.
Hmmm, you made a couple of calls but others may not have done so, they may have just paid the labor charge - you win some you loose some. :cool:
 

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Bon Vivant
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10,490 Posts
Now this thread has derailed long enough, can we get back to the original topic?

There is stiull time to object to the settlement. I have written my letters and mailed them.

I hope that everyone named as a class member makes his or her voice heard in this case.


I think we would have all been better off if this suit had not taken place but now that it has there's nothing anyone can do but be part of it.

The outcome will not be good for any of us but if you object maybe it could force them to continue to work out a deal that will be better...

Who is sending an objection letter?
 

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Blame the universe not the tank!
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3,218 Posts
I got two of the three post cards back from my registered mail sent to each of the parties. Yes it cost a couple bucks, but I damn sure know my letters got where they were sent!

Speak now (write your damn letters) or forever hold your peace! The deadline will not go away and it only takes a few minutes of time to do this.
 

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Blame the universe not the tank!
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3,218 Posts
An email from Izaak (ducatiplastictanks yahoo group)

Hello

If you've not yet received a mailed copy of the settlement notice, you can download it here:

http://www.girardgibbs.com/ducati-class-notice.pdf

I've had about 5 dozen emails and calls in the last couple of weeks about this (i.e. what should I do?) and I am formulating a response.

I am leaning towards objecting to the settlement on various grounds and will even make arrangements to appear at the hearing so that I can present visual evidence if the court permits it. Those of you who have already indicated you are objecting to the settlement are welcome to write to the court directly (NOTE YOU MUST SEND COPIES TO THE ATTORNEYS AS WELL, AND ALL MUST BE RECEIVED BY DEC 27)

Some of you have also stated you would like to "sign on" to my objection if I make one and that's fine, I'll need you to send me an email with your name and info. I might post a signature sheet for you to sign, notarize and fax (scan/email) to me.

That being said, I am still open to suspending my objection if I am convinced Ducati will seek other methods to prevent the tank expansion problem, rather than simply remediating it by changing parts on the bike.

I hope everyone realizes that a metal tank replacement is out of the question. The best solution is one that works with the original materials and design of the bike and prevents ingression of water and/or ethanol into the nylon of the tank.

Izaak
 

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117 Posts
My letters went out last week...Ducati is replacing a defective part with a part that is EQUALLY defective....dumb! It is not a solution but merely postponing the problem until you are out of warranty and it is no longer their problem and you are stuck buying tanks out of pocket, I say either replace it with one PROVEN to not deform, a metal one, or a warranty for the gas tank for the life of the bike. Now that would be a TRUE solution to the problem.
 

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Bon Vivant
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10,490 Posts
My letters went out last week...Ducati is replacing a defective part with a part that is EQUALLY defective....dumb! It is not a solution but merely postponing the problem until you are out of warranty and it is no longer their problem and you are stuck buying tanks out of pocket, I say either replace it with one PROVEN to not deform, a metal one, or a warranty for the gas tank for the life of the bike. Now that would be a TRUE solution to the problem.
Exactly! that's the letter we need to send. No need to go on and on, this is the point that we need to get across.
 

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Discussion Starter #48 (Edited)
Write that letter! RECEIPT DEADLINE is Dec 27, 2011

Get off this thread and go write your letter, if you have not done so already.

Remember, you are being given an opportunity to Approve / Reject / Exclude a proposed settlement in a FAIRNESS hearing....that is the question before the Court.

Assuming you filing a Rejection (vs. Support or Exclusion):

1) highlighting how it is unfair is required, and
2) suggesting alternative remedies is acceptable.

Resist the temptation to just do #2.
B42DAY's suggestion above is perfect:

"either replace it with one PROVEN to not deform, a metal one, or a warranty for the gas tank for the life of the bike"
Bingo!

NOW GO WRITE THE LETTER :think:

~ Sleepless
 

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Premium Member
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1,222 Posts
I sent my three letters for my two bikes. I rejected the settlement, asking for a lifetime warranty or a replacement tank that is made from materials proven not to deform.
 

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I hope everyone gets satisfaction for the tank issues and it is good to see many of you objecting as most times these class action suits are nothing but cash cows for the attorney's who make a boat load of money and the class participants get shit. That is my 2 cents anyway......
 

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Motard Menace you are exactly right.

Guys the deadline for a response is Dec 27. It has to be recieved no later than Dec 27.

So if you plan to send an objection - please, do it now!
Thanks for the reminder. I wrote my letters for my two bikes. They'll be in the mail first thing in the morning.
 

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Motard Menace you are exactly right.

Guys the deadline for a response is Dec 27. It has to be recieved no later than Dec 27.

So if you plan to send an objection - please, do it now!
I did it yesterday, I don't have the copy in front of me but essentially I pointed out that the settlement was overwhelmingly unbalanced in favor of Ducati, rather than the owners of affected vehicles. Although non-warranty covered affected models would be given a short period to obtain coverage, it would still be insufficient compared to metal tanks.

I went on to suggest that the warranty period should be 10 years for the tank due to the proclivity of plastic materials to deform when exposed to certain fuel mixtures seemingly unique to the US. It isn't unique to Ducati but they're affected by it. Locally, mechanics indicate this issue is prevalent.

This issue permanently marks the use & fair market value of any motorcycle affected, and if there is one phrase you don't hear it's "bargain Ducati". Buyers pay extra for top shelf parts and top level performance and there's simply no way putting a "like replacement part" makes owners whole again.
 

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Blame the universe not the tank!
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3,218 Posts
Settlement Day is here....

Below is the email from the guy who has been communicating all the info about the class action suit....

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Folks,

All of the filings are in, the objections are in, and assuming there are no more last minute changes, the Fairness Hearing for the settlement will be tomorrow.

I did not see that anyone is showing up to comment on their objection. I read most of the objections but so far, no one is going.

Girard Gibbs did file a response to some of the objections and specifically to mine. I'm regretting not being able to go the hearing, despite the comment in the response, there simply was not enough time to schedule an appearance.

Also, one thing that they pointed out was that I have over 400 registered members but I was "only" able to get 15 of you to join my objection. All told, there are about 25-30 total objections to the lawsuit. I'm surprised, given the number of you that have emailed me with comments like "this settlement is BS". The amount of effort involved in mailing an an objection is minimal, and now it has just enabled them to use that as proof of a lack of a problem with the settlement. The irony is that out of 400 registered people, about 150 of the email addresses are dead/bouncing. :-/

One thing I would like to point out is that the issue of ethanol/water/expansion is problematic. The response mentions that there are several declarations which support the "ethanol as sole problem" hypothesis, however, from my research, ethanol alone does not cause the problem. IN THE ABSENCE OF WATER/HUMIDITY, ethanol does not have any interaction with PA6/Nylon. We filled a gas tank with E85 (85% ethanol) and put it in a dry cabinet -- 0-5% humidity. After two MONTHS of this, the tank showed negligible expansion, which could have simply been measurement error.

The real issue is water absorption. If you want proof of this, drain your tank of all fuel, and pour in about 2-3 qts of warm water. Your fuel tank will balloon overnight. Ethanol in conjunction with water -- ethanol absorbs water -- is what is killing your gas tank.

Furthermore, the response dismisses the epoxy coating solution without addressing the fact that epoxy formulations have been specifically designed to a) adhere to polyamides (such as Nylons, Teflon, Kevlar, etc) and b) resist water, fuel, and other solvents.

The response mentions (publicly unavailable) declarations which counter this, and obliquely reference a 3M comment that they "question the suitability". Meanwhile, I have been in contact with 3M who were interested in testing that -- and I assume from the language they never did. However, other companies (i.e. RelTek) sell fuel-resistant epoxy formulations which are specific to polyamides and have done so for a long time. (oh, look a link: ADHESIVES for Nylon )

At this point, I cannot say what the court will do. If the judge does not look at the exhibits I sent, then I have to assume he'll approve the settlement and you'll enjoy having a bike with an ever-changing fuel tank, warranted out to the next 18 months or so. I would be sorry to see it go that way, and I think Ducati is making a deal with the devil here.

However, the other option is to just pay for a coating yourself (tank properly prepared) and be done with it. The used tank that I coated with Caswell's coating over 20 months ago is still dimensionally perfect with no sign of issues after about 4000 miles.

Once the settlement is done, I will be shutting down this list. I hope some of you have

*************
That was all that was in the email... not sure what he was saying in the last sentence. So of the 400 people who were on his email list, only a few objected to the settlement. That's fuckin lame. I know I objected and Flynbulldog did... wonder how many people "meant" to object but just couldn't find the time.... maybe people here objected who were not on his list... in that case, thanks for the effort.
 

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Bon Vivant
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10,490 Posts
I want to say thank you to those few of you who took a few moments and responded to this ridiculous settlement.

Two ever-growing characterizations of the American culture are greed and apathy and both have reared their ugly heads in this situation.

Greed on the part of the law firm that brought this case to court and have settled on behalf of the all-mighty dollar instead of the class members.
And apathy from you the owners of defective vehicles without the balls to get off your fat asses and make your objections heard.

There's plenty of bitching, moaning, and complaining going on around here but when it comes time to do something you cant even write a lousy letter...

You guys who did nothing deserve what you are about to get; 18 months of warranty on a tank that remains defective and will undoubtedly fail over and over again.

I'm pissed off about this and I'm even more pissed off at our culture at large. Go ahead, stop off at McDonalds for dinner tonight on your way home from buying a Chinese TV at Walmart,
that way you'll have more time on the forum this evening so you can argue about buying an aluminum tank from India, because, ...you're gonna need it now. :sleep:

I think that pretty much paints the American picture.
 

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Blame the universe not the tank!
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3,218 Posts
That sums it up rather well.
And for the record, I have a history of writing my congressman and senate over the years. Do I think my voice counts? Yes. Can anything be changed by a single person? No. It takes the collective to effort change.

I will not be angered at myself for NOT taking action, but as Mike stated, those who did nothing or "planned on doing something" but never did... good luck with the shitty result of paying thousands of dollars to keep an affected bike road worthy, and good luck trying to sell it with shit bulging every which way...

I sure wont buy an affected bike on the used market... so our shit just dropped in value BIG TIME in my book. Big enough for me to stay clear of any bike on the list. I'll wait for the baby Panigale.

I guess we can make a sticky in all the forums for USA bike affected. That way we can maintain our honesty on those coming to the brand. That's only fair.
 

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The good news is that according to an NPR "spot" I listened to - driving home, ethanol subsidies are done!!! I wish I knew how that would impact our Fuel ... but I don't!
 

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From what I read on a computer tech forum called Anandtech, 'some' of the ethanol subsidies are done and the percentage of food-based ethanols is expected to be reduced a small percentage, however non-food based ethanols are getting increased subsidies to the point that many automobile manufactures (except Government Motors) are indicating they may start voiding engine warranties.

My Sport Classic tank looks like it may be starting to deform (I'm not sure, but the paint just doesn't look as smooth along the top as recall) ... which has me starting to panic. But could you imagine what it will be like when your engine fails in your new car and the manufacture says sorry ... it was ethanol.

What exactly is beginning to happen here, this is bigger than just our bikes (although my bike is all I really care about) ... fuels being forced on us by government policies that damage our vehicles to the point that manufactures won't honour warranties. How do we hold the governments responsible when they create this situation? I'm glad I live in Canada where Premium is still ethanol free ... but every time I fill at one of those dial a grade pumps ... I assume more than half my fill is regular gas that was in the hose from the last guy. :mad:
 
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