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so then....this is essentially a hacked version of the ECU that's being exploited?

:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
JDuc said:
so then....this is essentially a hacked version of the ECU that's being exploited?

:D
I'm actually quite amazed that this was so low key, as I was just looking for info on the diagnostic interface, in my bid to do my own cables etc, and came across it via Google.
 

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so then, are you saying that you could go this route and not need the VDSTS?

The differnet models and the years he says they work for is what's confusing me I guess.

he's saying that
before x year all bikes used b computer
between x and y years all bikes used c computer
after y year all bikes used d computer

when I know that's not the case??

Can you tune CO with this or do you still need a seperate CO tuner? I understand that you will need a sniffer to properly tune CO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
JDuc said:
so then, are you saying that you could go this route and not need the VDSTS?

The differnet models and the years he says they work for is what's confusing me I guess.

he's saying that
before x year all bikes used b computer
between x and y years all bikes used c computer
after y year all bikes used d computer

when I know that's not the case??

Can you tune CO with this or do you still need a seperate CO tuner? I understand that you will need a sniffer to properly tune CO.
You would need a CO meter, to do the job properly. I hunted down a Gunson here in south Africa for a very good price.

I e-mailed LT Snyder (What a helpful guy) and he confirmed the VDSTS software can change the CO trimmer. You just need the right version for your bike or the Pro version which covers all bikes. The ECU in the ST2 can have its CO trimmed via a screw driver.

what I was looking for was a cheapy route, i.e. someone who had made their own cable and software to do the bear minimum, but the VDSTS standard (one ECU type) is fairly cheap.

I wonder if a wide band fuel ratio meter would assist in this job. I was busy building one for car tuning, but got distracted and then bought my Gunson.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It would seem to be a replacement programmable ECU, but the cost seems to $700 Australian, which in our SA Rands is 3 to 4 times what I would pay for the VDSTS software, it maybe an option if my ECU pops on my bike, as Ducati spares are horribly expensive here.

I would first like to hear from someone that has used or tried this before embarking on it.
 

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hrmmm - I'm still stumped

He's assuming quite a bit with his different models

for instance, he states that all ducs after 2000 use the same ECUs?

This simply isn't the case

so then, how would this possibly be feasable?

My bike runs the 1.5, my husbands runs the 5.9...and supposidly, this ECU that he sells would replace BOTH of them?

The My15 is only like $300 USD ($380AUD). Strange that the MY16M would be so much more!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I see he does seem to do for the P7/P8, the 1.5 and 1.6 but nothing for the newer linear type TPS systems, 5.9???

I would first see what feedback others give in this regard.
 

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Greetings,

Geez you Ducati riders are slow on the uptake. :D When I started selling my units about 3 years ago there didn't seem to any significant forum on the internet for Ducatis. Apologies for not searching harder for you.

As Richard correctly notes, I make an ECU for the first 3 generations of Weber ECUs (P8, 16M, 15M ).

Of course a single simple statement of model years is only going to be indicative and not definitive. Sheesh. I've even heard of the same model ship with different ECUs.

Ducatis are a bit under represented as far as my ECU goes.

There is a MyP8 in a Cagiva Elefant. Running very well closed loop.
There is a local Ducati running a 16M that had lots of misses. A quick try (10 minutes around the block ) with My16M showed the missing gone. The owner is still in the process of making up the My16M kit.
I shipped a My16M to the Netherlands last week for a Ducati race bike so should be getting some feedback there soon.

WRT pricing, all ECUs are the same price (AU$650) complete. The kits are about AU$270 ( My15M kit is 310)

Regards
Cliff Jefferies
 

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My ECU for 900 SS

Sounds like potentially a good fix, especially being able to use to old MARELLI case so STD wiring and looks remain. I like the tuneability of PC3's and especially like their free maps for various set ups, but always a little messy with the box under the seat / cables. Plus a PC3 won't eliminate any hardware / firmware faults inherent in the MARELLI board (Just masks them if you are lucky).

From Cliff's website sounds good that its fully tuneable and the idea that it rids the ECU of MARELLI frimware probs is a nice one. However I understand there are no DUCATI maps available from "MY ECU" yet. When such becomes available I would definitely be interested. Although its not cheap, when one can buy PC3's for as little as $ 290 USD on the web (www.58cycles.com) or get flashloads for $180 USD. Hence why I feel they need to come mapped to be truly competitive. (not a criticism Cliff, just a hint) Otherwise one would have to spend a day or two building maps from scratch... :rolleyes:

Cliff - are you considering borrowing a local 900 SS and making a few base maps? (ie 1 STD and 1 with open cans and airbox). Shouldn't be hard to find such in OZ... Could really open up the DUCATI market if you did (Should cover monsters etc as a basic "starter" map as well).
 

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Not to long ago there was a marathon thread ( http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4152) about tuning and maps. Read only if you're bored.
Had some very different viewpoints, a PC reseller - RacerX, an expensive dyno ($1000s ) operator/tuner - moto. Got a bit painful towards the end.

But summing up my opinion, maps are very overated, made so by the finnicky behaviour of the webers.

First off recall the pre FI bikes. People had many different combinations of jets/needles etc and still managed to have well performing bikes. Fact is engines are quite tolerant to mixture. You'd have to go past well 10% of the ideal to upset them.

What engines are not tolerant to, and I believe this to be the main problem with the 16M and 15M, is erratic spark advance.

Most maps are very similar, they have idle injections around 3-4ms and full throttle injections around 15ms. Everyone that has started with MyECU has started with the map from my Sport 1100. After getting the idle sweet a fixed correction is applied to the map - say 5% richer. Then they have the first ride and look for any rough spots. A few iterations over a few rides normally does the trick.

Here is a typical outcome http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6038
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hi Cliff

Is there any info available on PC to ECU interfaces for the Weber Marelli. There is plenty available for cars etc?

thanks
Richard
 

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Ok, I've been following this thread and I have a couple of comments and questions. I don't know much about Ducati FI, but do know a reasonable amount about Honda automobile FI. A base map is usually just that. Something to make a motor run, so you can hook up a Wideband O2 sensor, datalog it and the ecu's output while on the street or dyno and then make any needed corrections. Of course you can use someone else's map, but unless their set up is exactly the same as your's, it won't be the optimal map for your set up. Of course, if Ducati owners actually started to use this ECU, more and more base maps will be available.

I do know you don't need VDSTS with this. That's what either Cliff's software or Optimiser is for. I'm a little confused about this "tuning CO"? Typically, it's all about your Air/Fuel Ratio, hence the Wideband O2 sensor.

Cliff, I guess MyECU operates in Open Loop at WOT, and then closed loop using a map and the O2 sensor the rest of the time? I actually didn't realize that most bikes didn't even have Closed Loop operations. No wonder a set of pipes and an open airbox mess everything up. (In Closed Loop the O2 sensor will correct the mixture, unless it's too big a correction for it. This is why most new cars don't need much done to them when you add a free flowing air filter and exhaust)

richardtl, the problem is not only with the physical interface with the ECU, it's also hacking the factory maps and having a way to reprogram it (enter Tuneboy).

jduc, this not only replaces the stock ECU, it adds complete tunability of not only fuel, but ignition curves as well. It also adds the possibility of Close Loop operation, with an O2 sensor. You still need to get all your Air/Fuel and Ignition maps close to correct in Open Loop operation, but then the computer will always fine tune your mixture to the proper point. It's the O2 sensor and the Closed Loop operation that will eventually let Cliff include a "self tuning" function, where the system itself constantly improve it's maps.

Cliff, the only other thing I was wondering about is the use of a MAP sensor to read vacuum (or possibly boost?) or is the whole system based on the TPS? I know there aren't too many turbocharged Ducati's running around, but the ability to tune your FI correctly wouuld be a start.
 

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Aragorn said:
That's what either Cliff's software or Optimiser is for. I'm a little confused about this "tuning CO"? Typically, it's all about your Air/Fuel Ratio, hence the Wideband O2 sensor.
There's a lot of confusion here and it was discussed in detail on the thread I mentioned before. For tuning richer than lambda 1.0, the richness is indicated by CO, O2 is a noise quantity. For tuning leaner than lambda 1.0, the leanness is indicated O2. The common mistake is to say that therefore you can't tune with a wide band o2 sensor. What is happening is the lambda sensor has a couple of modes of operation. For lean it measures o2, for rich it indirectly measures C0. I don't want to go more into this on this thread. See the other thread.



Aragorn said:
Cliff, I guess MyECU operates in Open Loop at WOT, and then closed loop using a map and the O2 sensor the rest of the time?
For MyECU each map data point, specifies an o2 target index (0-7). 0 means open loop. The other indexes can be different A/F ratios.

Aragorn said:
Cliff, the only other thing I was wondering about is the use of a MAP sensor to read vacuum (or possibly boost?) or is the whole system based on the TPS? I know there aren't too many turbocharged Ducati's running around, but the ability to tune your FI correctly wouuld be a start.
You could feed that in as the pressure input and let the normal compensation take care of it or feed it in as the TPS. I don't know how easy that would be to tune though. Some systems connect the fuel pressure regulator to the manifold.
 

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Hey Cliff, I will read that other thread. It looks like just a "little" light reading. For anyone who's interested in tuning Ducatis, MyECU looks like a real viable alternative. Of course what do I know, my bike still has carbs. I was very surprised to find out how basic the Weber Marelli ECU's and their functions were (No closed loop for example). How are features like auto tune coming along? Also, any chance you will be making a MyECU to replace the newer Weber Marelli ECU's? Thanks again and the best of luck with it.
 

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The auto tune works quite well but there are some limitations to usage.

Conditions need to be fairly stable so that tends to restrict the areas of the map you can tune unless you put it on the dyno.

It works well in the band that is typically used for city/cruising.

You can either set the RPM ( cruising in a tall gear is best ) and then do a few cells above and below the mean. This changes vertical segments in the map.

Alternatively you can set the throttle and allow the bike to accelerate/decelerate. This changes horizontal segments in the map.

Soon I'll be adding datalogging capability. This will help to sort the edges of the map which are too dynamic for autotune.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hi Cliff
I will definitely keep your option open if one of my 1.5 ECU's goes pop. OEM parts are hell expensive here in South Africa.

Thanks
Richard
 
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