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Discussion Starter #1
I just replaced a set of Termi race slip-ons on my 1198s with a full Akrapovic race system. Along with the install I had my dealer dyno-tune the system with a PC III. The results fell well short of Akrapovic's claim of a performance enhancement to 163.0 hp. I experienced little to no gain in middle to top end torque and power over the Termi slip-on notwithstanding the addition of a full header. The best that we were able to get is 148 hp. At a price around $4000.00 I expected to see results at lease in the mid-150s. Falling so short of Akrapovic's claim is certainly a disappointment.

To give some credit to Akrapovic, I have not increased the airbox size or tuned the cams. Perhaps with that work completed I can come closer to my expectations. With the 1198s Evo motor being new, perhaps I am missing something that is not yet obvious to me.

Has anyone else tried the full Akrapovic system on an 1198s and seen better results? Any advice?

Thanks
 

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Trackday Junkie
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What kind of dyno?

Can you post up the dyno sheet (hopefully with the a/f ratio)?

Rear tire psi adjusted? Clean chain?

Miles on bike?

*Did you remove the Termi ecu that came with the slip-ons*?


I can tell you a lot, but there's a lot to know. For comparison's sake, how do other bikes do on *that* particular dyno?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'll get the dyno numbers and get back to you in a day or so. The bike has about 800 miles on it and all thires are properly inflated and the bike is a clean as a whistle. The shop is the best in the region, and the dyno wisperer has years of experience and is highly regarded. Moreover, I have full confidence in them. The original dyno was with the stock header and aftermarket Termi.
 

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Okay, but did you ever install the DP ecu
I agree that the DP ECU would make a slight difference as its a totally different ignition map. Furthermore, the "test bike" that got 160+ RWHP is probably measured on a different style of dyno and is probably inaccurate.

Also, a motor with 800 street miles on it, is hardly broken in. You've gotta ride the thing before you dyno it.



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Discussion Starter #6
We replaced the DP ecu when we installed the Termi's. It was dynoed off the PC III. My disappointment stem from Akrapovic's claim that of a gain of 2.8 hp with its full exhaust system over its slipon. (ie. 161.2 for the slip-on v. 163 for the full exhaust system that includes a larger header). Assuming that Termi and Akrapovic slipons are fungible with no advantage to either, then the full Akrapovic system should show a minimum gain of 2.8 hp. not including any gain from the larger header. My experience is that on the same brand new motorcycle, I got nothing out of the Akrapovic system. WTF?
 

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Its hard to give you an answer. 2.xx horsepower differences could be coming from the dyno, or the barometric pressure? I mean if you did the two dyno's back to back, one with the full exhaust one without, I'd say ok... If you didn't see a lick of difference, its time to start tuning more. Sounds to me like your upset about a 2.xx horsepower difference, instead of maybe seeing the torq numbers increase or decrease, thats where I'd be willing to bet you "power" is either less or more.



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To get an accurate number you should have dynoed the bike first with your slip on system termi with ECU, then removed them and installed your Akra full system with the ducati full system ECU or Nemisis etc. To take full advantage of your new exhaust system.

Its alot of work in one day but that is the only true way to get the difference in power etc..

Sounds like you are running the stock ecu with power commander. Get your ECU re-flashed with the dp full system tune or get a Nemesis(you can ditch your PC3 with this)
 

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MR. Twill
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point is he did not gain over the slip-on whether the bike had miles or not, thieves really

send it back to the vedor who sold it too you

I have seent he same thing with graves on a r1. they say their stacks, BMC, full exhaust and Ignition deal and custom map makes 13hp and i have seen 3 people buy all what they said and take their bikes for a dyno tune and the best one got 9 total

if the akra header you have can't product more HP then the OEM one sell it or send it as I would have never paid more then $2000 for steel with a ECU never mind $4000

Shite, send me the OEM header and mids and i will replicate it for you in thin stainless and make some minor adjustments for a good price and if you have the termi's still i would like to get my hands on them too for possibly a full exhaust, maybe we can help each other out here?
 

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point is he did not gain over the slip-on whether the bike had miles or not, thieves really

send it back to the vedor who sold it too you

I have seent he same thing with graves on a r1. they say their stacks, BMC, full exhaust and Ignition deal and custom map makes 13hp and i have seen 3 people buy all what they said and take their bikes for a dyno tune and the best one got 9 total

if the akra header you have can't product more HP then the OEM one sell it or send it as I would have never paid more then $2000 for steel with a ECU never mind $4000

Shite, send me the OEM header and mids and i will replicate it for you in thin stainless and make some minor adjustments for a good price and if you have the termi's still i would like to get my hands on them too for possibly a full exhaust, maybe we can help each other out here?



I doubt anyone would trade you titanium headers so you can make them out of stainless.:p

The Akra can be had for $2300 and a DP ecu can run $400-$500 so I have no idea why he paid $4k even with dyno time and a pc3 he should be under $3500.

Lets not forget the tuning is the most important part. If you did not start with the DP 70mm ECU tune you wasted ALOT of time as the PC3 only works over 3k rpm IIRC and is still limited in its current set up.

If I were the OP and spent $4k I would have a Nemisis with the AKRA Full TI system as the Fellas over at Nemisis are said to have KILLER maps already made.......can you say PLUG and PLAY ladies and gentelman?
 

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We replaced the DP ecu when we installed the Termi's. It was dynoed off the PC III. My disappointment stem from Akrapovic's claim that of a gain of 2.8 hp with its full exhaust system over its slipon. (ie. 161.2 for the slip-on v. 163 for the full exhaust system that includes a larger header). Assuming that Termi and Akrapovic slipons are fungible with no advantage to either, then the full Akrapovic system should show a minimum gain of 2.8 hp. not including any gain from the larger header. My experience is that on the same brand new motorcycle, I got nothing out of the Akrapovic system. WTF?
WTF.....you spent $4000 to gain 2.8 HP over slip on??? I doubt you wouldn't even feel that?
That bike has more than enough HP.....maybe a slip on for the sound and to get rid of the cats to cool the bike off a bit.......but $4000 would nearly get you an extremely well built balanced and blue printed engine.:eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I'm not winning about the 2.8 hp. Like some have said atmospheric pressure can change hp by that much in a few hours. My disappointment about the Akrapovic's is that I got no bump in hp whatsoever with the full exhaust system. Let alone the gain that Akrapovic claims--163 hp versus my realization of 148. According to my math that is 15 hp not realized.

I love the looks of the Akra, and enjoy watching the titanium ripen. I have no plans to go back from the Akra's as I think they are a good starting point for other upgrades. My disappointment is that the hp and torque were not as advertised.

I appreciate all the advice that you have all provided. There are some good tips that I will follow up. I'll keep you posted when I get this all figured out.
 

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Hey Rob. I put a set of slip on Termi's/chip and filter on my 1198S about 2 weeks ago and have to say that I could feel the difference almost immediately.

Not sure how much HP you're chasing but I went riding Sunday just gone with some mates and they were blown away how easily I was able to lift the front wheel with just using power. A typical scenario was overtaking traffic at 100kph (60 mph) and having the front wheel about a foot off the group the whole past until I came back in.

I understand that you can never have too much power, but I'm pretty much in awe of how much grunt this puppy has.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Onsong and TomTom, I appreciate your comments. I love the power of this wonderful bike and have easily pulled up the front wheel with little to no effort like you state. Perhaps I have a problem wanting more and more power out of this beast, but in this case I expected more out of a full system than I got out of a slip on.
 

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I will try and help clarify where we are at with Rob's bike and then everyone can continue speculating from there : )

09 1198S
Stage 1
Dyno break in when new.
Termi Slip ons
DP ECU
DP filter
Matched injectors
PC3 with full dual maps

Stage 2
Full Akrapovic Exhaust
New full dual maps
Only saw a small gain over DP slip ons.


Here is a map from our 1198 base model demo with;
Leo slipons
2 Fat Ducs
PC3 single map (controlling over 4k only)

A good gain can be seen over stock on our demo and is virtually equal in HP to Rob's 1198S with the full Akrapovic full system. Rob did see a gain over stock although we did not ever run the bike with stock exhaust for record. We are just not seeing a big gain over slip ons with the Akra system. Next we will inspect cam timing to look for a bit more HP

 
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