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SDRider
You can do a reverse bleed and don't have to take the caliper off and hang it, by pushing the fluid upstream from the caliper You'll push the air out into the reservoir

Same thing for the clutch
 

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TONS of air, discolored fluid (even though the system had just been flushed) and even some particulate stuff!
Oh you mean like this?



I've been pulling this stuff out (along with air and old brake fluid) ever since I did the "bleeder bolt at the ABS module" trick years ago. Doesn't seem to have a negative effect on braking, but I do wonder just what that stuff is...
 

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Really, what could that black stuff be but deteriorated seals ? There’s too much of it to be anything else.
 

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SDRider
You can do a reverse bleed and don't have to take the caliper off and hang it, by pushing the fluid upstream from the caliper You'll push the air out into the reservoir

Same thing for the clutch
It’s not that difficult and it gives me the opportunity to thoroughly clean the swing arm, rear wheel and brake caliper and inspect the rear brake pads.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Really, what could that black stuff be but deteriorated seals ? There’s too much of it to be anything else.
My thought exactly. Again, the idea is that the heat causes seal breakdown, allowing air into the system, which collects at the top of the ABS circuit. Bleeding at the ABS will improve performance but the problem will re-occur as more air gets in. Rebuilding or replacing the master will stop the air leak- until the heat cooks the seals again!

Short term fix- better heat insulation on the master, plus ABS bleed fitting and vacuum bleed.

Long terms fix- relocate brake (and clutch) master further away from the heat of the cat. Any bets of Ducati fixing that???

Dave
 

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Still baffles me how they let this design go...

Bummer, i basically have no rear break. Going to change fluid to the recommended in the video :(
 

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Guys! I bit the bullet for the $70 castrol racing brake fluid. Spent a majority of the day really cleaning all my brakes and rotors and swapped in all new ebc HH pads. Also, vacuum bled the castrol fluid into all the brakes and spun the rear caliper upside down for proper bleeding. I only got a few hundred miles in until my bike had a major issue... see new thread... but as far as the brakes go they felt great! Like never before on the rear. I was actually able to lock up the rear and activate ABS with relative ease. HH pads in the front are slightly grabby but great stopping power. Will report longevity on the rear brake in the future.
 

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I just did my second rear brake bleed this year and since I live in Seattle you know how little riding that equates to. I don't think it's much improved over what I started with.

Whomever designed this with an inverted caliper, an inverted master cylinder, no additional bleed points and the need to remove the caliper/wheel should be offered alternative employment.
 

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I don't think it's much improved over what I started with.
Since this was my second flush without much improvement I went a different direction and adjusted the master cylinder pushrod to reduce free play at the brake pedal. The pushrod threads were only showing about 2-3 threads beyond the lock nut, winding the rod out a few turns reduced the free play so that I can operate the brake without having to move my foot and stamp on it, and without causing the brake to bind. Hopefully my issue was more free play than actually needing another bleed.
 

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Guys! I bit the bullet for the $70 castrol racing brake fluid. Spent a majority of the day really cleaning all my brakes and rotors and swapped in all new ebc HH pads. Also, vacuum bled the castrol fluid into all the brakes and spun the rear caliper upside down for proper bleeding. I only got a few hundred miles in until my bike had a major issue... see new thread... but as far as the brakes go they felt great! Like never before on the rear. I was actually able to lock up the rear and activate ABS with relative ease. HH pads in the front are slightly grabby but great stopping power. Will report longevity on the rear brake in the future.
Sorry, this does not mean that the $70 castrol racing brake fluid is fantastic, it means that you did a fantastic job of bleeding the rear brake. Further if you still have great brakes in 6 months time it is still not concussive evidence that the $70 castrol racing brake fluid is the cause, it may well be that you did a fantastic job of bleeding the rear brake.

I don't use the $70 castrol racing brake fluid but I do have fantastic brakes. I bleed them about 1 a year (about 25,000 Km) using a reverse bleeder tool and have the extra bleeder installed at the ABS unit. Bike has 73,000 Km on it now.

Of course YMMV
 

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Since this was my second flush without much improvement I went a different direction and adjusted the master cylinder pushrod to reduce free play at the brake pedal. The pushrod threads were only showing about 2-3 threads beyond the lock nut, winding the rod out a few turns reduced the free play so that I can operate the brake without having to move my foot and stamp on it, and without causing the brake to bind. Hopefully my issue was more free play than actually needing another bleed.
Have you ridden the bike since you adjusted the free play? This can cause your rear brake to over heat and lock up. Don't ask me how I know this.
 

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Have you ridden the bike since you adjusted the free play? This can cause your rear brake to over heat and lock up. Don't ask me how I know this.
Indeed. I checked multiple times statically that the brake wasn't binding by rotating the wheel and applying and releasing the brake, and made some fine tuning adjustments. I've since been out on it twice with no issues. I probably still have more free play than I'd like, but even just half a turn more seemed to result in binding. It still has limited "feel" but at least it works. The whole thing pisses me off, the Nissin brakes on my $10k ST3R are way better.
 

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Indeed. I checked multiple times statically that the brake wasn't binding by rotating the wheel and applying and releasing the brake, and made some fine tuning adjustments. I've since been out on it twice with no issues. I probably still have more free play than I'd like, but even just half a turn more seemed to result in binding. It still has limited "feel" but at least it works. The whole thing pisses me off, the Nissin brakes on my $10k ST3R are way better.
Keep an eye on it over time. As moisture accumulates in the brake lines it can cause more expansion when the fluid gets hot. If the brake is not dragging now, it may gradually start to and cause damage before you realize it. Definitely been known to happen... I've always felt that the the multi's rear brakes were adjusted from the factory to account for this, and the poor braking was due to poor design as opposed to being out of adjustment.
 

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Keep an eye on it over time. As moisture accumulates in the brake lines it can cause more expansion when the fluid gets hot. If the brake is not dragging now, it may gradually start to and cause damage before you realize it. Definitely been known to happen... I've always felt that the the multi's rear brakes were adjusted from the factory to account for this, and the poor braking was due to poor design as opposed to being out of adjustment.
I am taking it in small increments to monitor it and find the sweet spot after I tweaked the adjuster to set the pedal position. As it was set, I basically couldn't press down on the pedal in my boots, not enough ankle movement. The brake is largely what it is, badly designed, and I'm not in the mood to shell out $$$ on a caliper replacement that others have done in the hope of fixing it.
 

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I am taking it in small increments to monitor it and find the sweet spot after I tweaked the adjuster to set the pedal position. As it was set, I basically couldn't press down on the pedal in my boots, not enough ankle movement. The brake is largely what it is, badly designed, and I'm not in the mood to shell out $$$ on a caliper replacement that others have done in the hope of fixing it.
Understood. Just a reminder I suppose, as I remember more than a few reports of folks burning up their rear brake when they -didn't- monitor it after making adjustments. Sounds like you are on top of it.
 

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When adjusting the push-rod for the master cyl. piston, you must ensure that a small amount of fluid enters the reservoir at the very beginning of the stroke. This tells you that you have not adjusted the piston in too far. On the rear master, it's best seen with little fluid in the reservoir...

Look at the GIF files in posts #13 and 14 here:

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/80-hall-wisdom/29044-clutch-master-cylinder-adjustment-2.html

If the port is blocked, pressure will build up in short order, and overheat your rotor and pads. Even the "F" word has been used here. (No, not feck, Fire, dude!)
 

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When adjusting the push-rod for the master cyl. piston, you must ensure that a small amount of fluid enters the reservoir at the very beginning of the stroke. This tells you that you have not adjusted the piston in too far. On the rear master, it's best seen with little fluid in the reservoir...
Great tip, thank you! Yes, I still have movement in the reservoir :smile2:
 

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I fitted new pads in my 2010 today bled it, but theres still a long push to get the rear to lock up in gravel, i need to alter the play in it.
 

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change to rear MC

I fitted new pads in my 2010 today bled it, but theres still a long push to get the rear to lock up in gravel, i need to alter the play in it.
an alternative on pre 2015 models is to change the 13mm MC for the 15mm MC as fitted to the post 2015 models. The larger bore means more fluid is pushed per stroke. The part is not expensive, think mine cost around US$50.

search the forums for details
 
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