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I am a brand new duc owner and im trying to figure out what the 999's counterpart is in the jap world. The guy i bought it from said that he used to hang with the 600's on the track. So i guess what im asking is this, is the 999 closer to a 600 or to a 1000? I have never ridden a liter bike so i don't know how to compare it. Thanks.
 

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Like you I am new to the Ducati scene and have an '05 999. But I have a long history of jap bikes.

Modern jap 600s these days are putting out 105~115whp and 1000s are at 150~175ish whp. The latter hp figures would require some fairly involved engine work.

I don't know what the exact power output of a stock 999 is, but a quick google search says that the '05 999 is at 140hp at crank; and with at 15% drive train loss that'd put it at right around 119.

aka an 05 999 with a couple of toys would be quicker than a modern day 600, but nowhere near a 750/1000.

But brute power is not why you ride a duc is it??

I haven't even rode my 999 yet but I'm willing to bet its nothing like a jap.
 

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It is comparable in its stock form to a GSXR 750. Now the R version is very comparable to the 1000's. The newer Ducati liter bikes are on par with the new liter jap bikes, Ducati got its power act together on the new line :)
 

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I am a brand new duc owner and im trying to figure out what the 999's counterpart is in the jap world. The guy i bought it from said that he used to hang with the 600's on the track. So i guess what im asking is this, is the 999 closer to a 600 or to a 1000? I have never ridden a liter bike so i don't know how to compare it. Thanks.
Stock, base 999's have the torq of a 1000 inline 4, but don't have the top end. I agree its more like a 750 inline 4, then anything else. Hence the reason why back in the day 750's raced against 999cc ducati's.

Even today, the 1098R is hardly the competitor for a slightly modified inline 4 1000. I see every experienced racers on 1098R's on a weekly basis, race over 2 seconds slower then not as experienced guys on inline 4 1000's.

The "supersport" bikes are probably the closest thing. My 749R is roughly the same as an inline 4 600 supersport spec bike. I do have more torq, but otherwise, its a very good comparison/competition.



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Stock, base 999's have the torq of a 1000 inline 4, but don't have the top end. I agree its more like a 750 inline 4, then anything else. Hence the reason why back in the day 750's raced against 999cc ducati's.

Even today, the 1098R is hardly the competitor for a slightly modified inline 4 1000. I see every experienced racers on 1098R's on a weekly basis, race over 2 seconds slower then not as experienced guys on inline 4 1000's.

The "supersport" bikes are probably the closest thing. My 749R is roughly the same as an inline 4 600 supersport spec bike. I do have more torq, but otherwise, its a very good comparison/competition.
I thought that the 1098R power wise is with the jap liter bikes. I'm not sure why these guys cannot keep up. Can you elaborate?
 

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...Even today, the 1098R is hardly the competitor for a slightly modified inline 4 1000. I see every experienced racers on 1098R's on a weekly basis, race over 2 seconds slower then not as experienced guys on inline 4 1000's...
Experienced racers with 185bhp and they can't keep up with less experienced dudes on slightly modified rice burners????:eek: :confused:

Now you're taking the p*ss right... :D
 

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My 999 is unlike any jap bike I've ever owned or ridden, and I love it.

If I wanted ridiculous power that you can't use on the street, I would have gotten an R1.
 

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I thought that the 1098R power wise is with the jap liter bikes. I'm not sure why these guys cannot keep up. Can you elaborate?
Well, I race WERA and WSMC and have never seen a 1098R win anything BUT the twins classes. I really don't know if the issues are related to stability (my guess) or just lack of power. Don't forget, 1098R's from the factory, have the same problems all Ducati's have; poor cam timing, poor fuel mapping etc... You can't use a Nemesis on a 1098R without loosing traction control, so all of a sudden the really good tuning option, doesn't exist.

Needless to say, off the show room floor, the big twins arn't competitive against inline 4 1000's. Even Higbee on the buell from AMA, isn't able to keep up with the inline 4 1000's and he's an AMA Pro racer on a factory racing buell.

Things might change this season though, as the guys with 1098R's are dumping major coin into them. RS cam's, pistons, crank and maybe even a Mangeti Marelli ECU upgrade, might be what the doctor ordered... ;)



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Well, I race WERA and WSMC and have never seen a 1098R win anything BUT the twins classes. I really don't know if the issues are related to stability (my guess) or just lack of power. Don't forget, 1098R's from the factory, have the same problems all Ducati's have; poor cam timing, poor fuel mapping etc... You can't use a Nemesis on a 1098R without loosing traction control, so all of a sudden the really good tuning option, doesn't exist.

Needless to say, off the show room floor, the big twins arn't competitive against inline 4 1000's. Even Higbee on the buell from AMA, isn't able to keep up with the inline 4 1000's and he's an AMA Pro racer on a factory racing buell.

Things might change this season though, as the guys with 1098R's are dumping major coin into them. RS cam's, pistons, crank and maybe even a Mangeti Marelli ECU upgrade, might be what the doctor ordered... ;)

you should watch more of WSBK ;) 1098R has been kicking ass for the last 2 years.
 

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Cant remember the last time a ducati went well in the ama super bike series. Down to ama super bike rules me thinks. Look at Ben Spies go now in wsb . Couldn`t get near in previous years because his bike wasn`t up to the wsb standards . Look at Hodgson a real fast guy on a bike not up to the task. Ducati years. In years gone the ducati 999 has run away with the bsb series but then again always a full F series bike.
 

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Last time I checked the 1098F09 had more power and torq then any other V twin Ducati ever made, unlike the street production version.
Yes, but so do the bikes they are competing against. Horses for courses.

I'm still struggling to believe a 1098R with a quality rider would be beaten by a an average rider on a slightly modified jap bike.
 

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All you "experts" that are putting the 999 in the same class as the 600's and 750 japs, please inform the World Superbike Racing federation that there must be a mistake on their website - they show that the 999 won three championships. Oh, and I better tell that guy on the CBR1000 that it wasn't really a 999 that he tried to catch on track day.

Oh, you want to benchrace? You mean to tell me, Mr. Yamamoto, that you need FOUR cylinders in order to achieve an output of 150 horsepower?

L
 

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All you "experts" that are putting the 999 in the same class as the 600's and 750 japs, please inform the World Superbike Racing federation that there must be a mistake on their website - they show that the 999 won three championships. Oh, and I better tell that guy on the CBR1000 that it wasn't really a 999 that he tried to catch on track day.

Oh, you want to benchrace? You mean to tell me, Mr. Yamamoto, that you need FOUR cylinders in order to achieve an output of 150 horsepower?

L
 

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What is the point here? Everyone knows that Duc's do not put out the kind of power that jap I4's do. But the reason we ride these bikes is not because of the power, but because they are full of life, they have a soul, unlike jap fours that are as lifeless as a can opener. Also, everyone knows for racing an I4 is a better engine configuration because of the tendency towards higher revs. For the street, big twins are better because of the torque. Even though my gixxer 750 had more power than my 848, the 848 feels much faster in real world riding that involves stop and go, roll on acceleration, and the like. Only at 10,000 rpm or higher would the gixxer feel faster.
 

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All you "experts" that are putting the 999 in the same class as the 600's and 750 japs, please inform the World Superbike Racing federation that there must be a mistake on their website - they show that the 999 won three championships. Oh, and I better tell that guy on the CBR1000 that it wasn't really a 999 that he tried to catch on track day.
Yea, that 999 which won 3 championships was practically a MotoGP bike. It was the highest tuned 4 stroke liter twin to ever set foot in racing. For a while, Ducati thought they could run it in MotoGP, until they discovered it was just not powerful enough. Needless to say it cost well over $120k and in 2007 had issues keeping pace with $80k inline 4 1000's.

Ya get what you pay for and Ducati wanted a "cheaper" alternative. So they got the rules changed and spit out a stellar 1200cc machine that looks like it may win them another championship.

I race every month against built inline 4 600's and can tell you flat out, they're VERY fast machines and even my built-to-the-hilt 749R has issues passing on power alone. Having a fully built and blueprinted race bike which has zero issues passing 999's, but struggling to pass inline 4 600's, really shows me how quick those bee's buzzing around me are! :(



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What is the ratio of races:total rebuilds for a Jap factory bike vs. a Ducati factory bike? Is it similar?

I can only say there are always less Ducs in the field when I watch WSBK but that there are always 1-2 in contention vs. a slew of everything from jap bikes to even a Buell once generally. That says to me Ducati is defintely doing something right (and so is Buell, unless I was drunk that night LOL).

Toss a coin, good riders will go somewhere, and seeing Ducati (underfunded, underpowered dumbass Harleys of the racing world to many fools) constantly in the running says to me if, in the paper-spec scheme, chassis/power-wise there 'may' be something missing, yet in the holistic scheme Ducatis just do what they are supposed to...all rider-talent being equal. You add an inequality to that (more cylinders etc.) and that advantage does NOT go away as fast as a piece of paper says it should. Not that I can back that up as a racer, but I certainly can with my eyes/watching experience:)

I'm willing to bet racer X with a particular level of talent will go faster on a Ducati with 'level A' mods than Mr. Y on a B Jap/other bike 50% of the time, and reverse it the other 50%. But in the big picture the ratio of Ducs to other and the number of times you still see a Duc near the top says something about what is there, something none of us can describe...

Shawn
 

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Though you could be right, the guys riding inline 4 1000's could be that much better of riders.
At the club level, the one we were originally talking about, that's exactly right. Because 90% of the time the guys who are there to win races and collect purse money and cash contingency checks are on Japanese 1000's.
The guys who race Ducatis are, 90% of the time, there to race their Ducati's against similar machines.

Sound familiar?
 
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