Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner
  • Hey Everyone! Enter your bike HERE to be a part of this months Bike of the Month Challenge!

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,978 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
interested in cams versus porting on a 1999 996s. (i'm building this bike for ridability and performance. it will seldom see a track day...sigh)

what are the max gains and recommended valve sizes with the heads while keeping the cams stock?

what are the gains of sock valves while simply changing to SPS or 748r cams?

don't have the play money i would like to have, and i wouldn't call my play money play money either. i must choose cams versus the porting. i can get the heads ported for $50 suggestions?


and, how would altering the size (shorter/taller) of the velocity stacks make a difference?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,248 Posts
TomTom would know this.. I timed the cams and mapped my SPS and we had good gains from that modification. Low budget too..

We talked about diffrent ways to increase the power and torque on mine..
His choices where (In order as i can recall)
1. Bigger valves.. 37mm intake and 31mm exhaust
2. A good porting job, since the desmoquattros apprently have bad flows
3. High compression pistons (Pistal´s where recommended)

But i already have the SPS cams in mine since it IS an SPS..

Try PMing tomtom or bradblack.. both have ample experience in tuning the 996 engine.
Toms site is www.hypertrick.net
Brads is www.bikeboy.org
Both have reports sections with diffrent tunes they have done.. I know Tom has done more then what is in his reports section, but he´s doing alot of tuning right now.

//amullo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
797 Posts
First $50.00 for a porting job??? Any engine builder who does a $50.00 porting job on a Ducati, I would be concerned about....

Yes smoothing the stock ports is OK, but you will not notice any gains without cams/pistons. Ben Fox Racing Engines told me that the stock ports are not that bad, at least on my 2001 996, OK compared to the older 916 heads.

But as stated the real power increase comes from the good 'ol SPS cams, oversized valves and pistons.

Heck just high compression pistons help considerably.......

But in the end if you are not willing to dump a bunch of bucks into the top-end, just a quality valve job, and good rockers will treat you well on the street.

That's my .02cents
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,158 Posts
CJS Racing

Checkout http://www.cjsracing.co.uk/ there is lots of info on porting/gasflow and Chris is very knowledgeable on the subject.

Did a great job on my 916 using only stock parts with approx 15% power hike through the rev range but particularly noticeable in the midrange where you need it for road use.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,709 Posts
You can get pretty good gains with cam timing, even with the stock cams and ported heads. But the serious stuff is oversized valves and then sps cams. Course, you need exahust, too...TomTom definitely has a lot of work into it. Do a search on here and on speedzilla.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
127 Posts
Fifty dollar porting :) sounds like a good buy ...

it takes me 4x8 hours days to perfectly gasflow/port a 996 head with new guides and oversize valves and thats only because i no what im doing . it took a long time trying different shaped ports to get a good dyno result. I do go a bit overkill on the flow testing to make sure the heads hit the required flow , velocity numbers and that both heads flow the same with valves in and out. Many people dont bother with this . I feel this is where the last few hp comes from (combined with good tuning of course) . People must understand there are many names and forms of gasflowing/porting. In my work i change the shape of my ports , shape of my valves , seats and combustion chambers . Others porting can be anything from a simple spit shine wich gains sod all to a reconstruction.

Bang for buck would be to install some pistol R 2000 pistons not R1999 . This gives about 8hp by itself where the 1999 gives about 4 hp.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,256 Posts
To the OP; Is there a problem with the bike the way it is? Are you looking to waste money, or is the bike just really slow? Have you done an exhaust, PC3 with tuning and the single injector mod yet?

Being 10 years old, I think you might wanna first take the avenue of a re-build. Putting new rings on the pistons, cleaning up the ports a bit (not milling anything) and re-setting squish, could immediately bring a lot of power to the table. Anybody who can build performance motors can do that job for you and sure it might be costly, but you wanna make sure you're motor is in good shape before adding things like cam's or even high-comp piston kits. I wouldn't touch things like the pistons or valve size, if you're not racing. Larger valves help considerably at high RPM's, but just riding around town or in the canyon's, it won't be that noticeable.

At the same time, if you've got some cash laying around and wait long enough, you should be able to find a nice set of SPS cam's out there. Those cam's alter the properties of the motor just a bit; you'll have a bit more top end and torq. We're not talking 15% or something, more like 8%. The 748R cam's take a different direction, they're a bit more peaky. If I recall, for the street, the perfect combo is the R intake cam and the strada (original) exhaust cam.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,709 Posts
To the last poster:

Why do you find it ok for yourself to modify your bikes, but harp on others? You don't think he knows how old the bike is? Let TomTom and CJS answer the man's questions, because they know how to build a desmo up properly with very good results. You're whole "Are you looking to waste money" comment cracks me up, considering you've spent how much on yours? Oh yeah, it's ok because it's your race bike. My bad.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
447 Posts
To the last poster:

Why do you find it ok for yourself to modify your bikes, but harp on others? You don't think he knows how old the bike is? Let TomTom and CJS answer the man's questions, because they know how to build a desmo up properly with very good results. You're whole "Are you looking to waste money" comment cracks me up, considering you've spent how much on yours? Oh yeah, it's ok because it's your race bike. My bad.
Relax cobra, I would have asked the same questions..the guy says he does not have play money and at the same time wants to play???? 8hp will not be noticed much on the street and not worth it in my opinion either. I also have modded my bikes... although I try to be smart about it. 50 bucks is hardly going to get a port job ..now 500 is most likely what he will need. Not worth it for a street bike. ...it's only my opinion.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,709 Posts
I understand if it's someone else, but Tye is consistently downing other people working on desmo motors but ask Tye how much he has spent on goodies for his bikes. His attitude is it's always ok for him to spend money on his bikes but not worth it for anyone else.

Relax cobra, I would have asked the same questions..the guy says he does not have play money and at the same time wants to play???? 8hp will not be noticed much on the street and not worth it in my opinion either. I also have modded my bikes... although I try to be smart about it. 50 bucks is hardly going to get a port job ..now 500 is most likely what he will need. Not worth it for a street bike. ...it's only my opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
285 Posts
Unless your riding around the roads like Carl Fogarty forget it. A sps is a pain in the ass to ride around town streets, and if this is the kind of performance your wanting, it is wasting your money for street use.

Look for a better after market exhaust and a good chip. you would be far more satisfied.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
447 Posts
I understand if it's someone else, but Tye is consistently downing other people working on desmo motors but ask Tye how much he has spent on goodies for his bikes. His attitude is it's always ok for him to spend money on his bikes but not worth it for anyone else.
Well to be honest, tye is racing and might have a little play money..this guy is the opposite. Some of his comments might have been a little tacky but bottom line is he is right.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,709 Posts
Well to be honest, tye is racing and might have a little play money..this guy is the opposite. Some of his comments might have been a little tacky but bottom line is he is right.
How about we agree to disagree? If you follow the posts on this board where someone asks if they should tinker with a 916 series bike, the same reply from Tye comes out: They're not worth it and it will cost more then the bike's worth. Some people actually like to be a gear head and mess with bikes. So if a person doesn't have anything helpful to say, then why say anything? Tomtom and Chris offer great information in relation to the older Desmo motors, they will tell you how much it will cost to reach HP levels of varying degrees. Let the OP decide if he can afford it or not.

As for Tye having extra play money, it's a moot point. The point is he feels it's ok to spend a ton of money on his 748R and now his 749R, yet, no one else is qualified to do so.

If this makes me an ass, so be it, but Tye continually telling everyone that the 916 series are nothing but problems gets very old. That would be equivalent to someone saying don't waste money on a '69 Camaro because they're antiquated. Some people do like to spice things up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
447 Posts
How about we agree to disagree? If you follow the posts on this board where someone asks if they should tinker with a 916 series bike, the same reply from Tye comes out: They're not worth it and it will cost more then the bike's worth. Some people actually like to be a gear head and mess with bikes. So if a person doesn't have anything helpful to say, then why say anything? Tomtom and Chris offer great information in relation to the older Desmo motors, they will tell you how much it will cost to reach HP levels of varying degrees. Let the OP decide if he can afford it or not.

As for Tye having extra play money, it's a moot point. The point is he feels it's ok to spend a ton of money on his 748R and now his 749R, yet, no one else is qualified to do so.

If this makes me an ass, so be it, but Tye continually telling everyone that the 916 series are nothing but problems gets very old. That would be equivalent to someone saying don't waste money on a '69 Camaro because they're antiquated. Some people do like to spice things up.
The OP comes out and claims "I have no play money"..

Anyways.. We could never agree on anything as your a gator and i'm a cane. :D
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,709 Posts
The OP comes out and claims "I have no play money"..

Anyways.. We could never agree on anything as your a gator and i'm a cane. :D
Ahh...but we could...FSU sucks...;) It's all good Viperguy...I've been fightin' the Tye battle for awhile, it's become a humorous stab at each other, I think we both just laugh at each other behind our keyboards...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
447 Posts
Ahh...but we could...FSU sucks...;) It's all good Viperguy...I've been fightin' the Tye battle for awhile, it's become a humorous stab at each other, I think we both just laugh at each other behind our keyboards...
Ah... we can agree on FSU... they do suck penis pretty good.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,256 Posts
The problem is, 99% of ALL motorcycle riders are looking for more power and don't understand how to get that power. Most people "assume" hot cam's and higher comp pistons are the magical fix, but in reality that is not the first step. Its like throwing a turbo on a old, worn-out motor as a way to make power, instead of re-building it; I consider that a waste of money.

We've gone around and around in circles on this subject before, every time it goes back to the same answer; A motor re-build can give you 10+ rwhp in of itself, especially if you re-time it at the same time.

So if the OP is just looking for power (usually people who ask about cam's and such are interested in making more power) the suggestion is always to build the motor first, then start with simple mods like the cam kit. I agree the SPS cam's arn't great for the street, but if the request is more power, thats the first route to take because its easy and its relatively cheap. Though I do like the R and Strada cam combo, I've done that myself and it works good.

In terms of the money I "waste"... If ya don't win the race, you can't collect your contingency money and henceforth, can't race next time out because you can't afford it. So sure, it my sound like I waste money, but the money I put in the front end, allows me to save 10x that much on the back end via contingency. Don't forget, my street bike is 100% stock... ;)



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
325 Posts
I have a '99 996S as well. Intend to only street ride it. I've done plenty of racing - this bike is not for that.
I spent a couple of months reading and researching before deciding on which way I'd go on mods.
In the end, the consensus was almost unanimous: SPS cams make their HP in the upper RPM range. Not so good for the street. SPS cams with porting mean even more $$$ for valves, bigger exhaust, and more to capitalize on porting. The final tab would be quite high.

In the end I was advised to time the cams, a good exhaust, and a tune by someone who knows what they are doing. This combo is said to make a smooth torquey street motor with an extra 10 HP or so.

An old racer said if you want more power - turn that thing on the end of the handlebar. Meaning these things make more power than anyone can use on the street...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
41 Posts
At the risk of being flogged, I'll chime in.....

For a street 996, the biggest gain is to re-gear the bike. It has more than enough HP for daily use, but the track-based gearing makes it very dog-ish in the stoplight-to-stoplight brigade. Change the sprockets and see where you are before putting $0.02 into the engine.....
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top