[Czakky]

My ratty, crappy, wonderful, little sh*tbox has backed out the crank plug…. sigh.
I’m going to fix it.

Looks like I need an alternator cover puller, a uh crank plug, and a quart of 3-bond. I don’t see any gaskets on Stein Dinse’s awesome website for the left side.

Am I missing something?

I’m sure there will be a few “while I’m there” things but I like to have as much on hand as possible.

thanks for any help
Bill

 

[belter]

they use threebond instead of gaskets between cases and covers. you'll need lock washers for timing gear or primary drive or both, depending how you're going about it. some o-rings.

 

[duc96cr]

I thought by ‘99 they had that crank plug problem fixed ? I guess I’m mistaken.

 

[ducvet]

I have not seen a crank plug out after about 2005 but prior.......
Keep in mind if removing the thickness of a paper gasket you are changing crank preload and transmission end float. So all need to be checked IF you have paper in there now. Side covers do not matter, we used to remove paper gaskets for a liquid gasket simply because there were fewer issues with liquid gaskets. But you do need to understand too much and you risk oil passage blockages.

If you are going in you will want to change....
output bearing sprocket side.
output seal
layshaft seal
the rest needs to be inspected real close for any wear or damage to the bearing race or cage

And I would recommend also changing if budget allows...
Crankshaft main bearings
rod bolts to allow you to inspect your rod bearings, they are not re-useable.
Rod bearings if yours are bad or out of spec.

Bottom line do you want to go this far and leave something that could cause you to do it again ?
Changing mains and rod bearings re-sets the clock on the high risk items , not cheap but peas of mind you should not be going back into the bottom end again.
I would bet you can re-use the crank plug it is likely not damaged just loose.

 

[Czakky]

Oi! I know, I know…
I will start getting prices together. I started getting the motor ready to be pulled yesterday.

This was supposed to be my low buck, war horse bike. I guess a lot questions will be answered.

 

[ducvet]

The struggle with be with the primary gear, if possible have the local ducati shop remove it should not take more than 5 minutes with the right tool. If that is not an option you can use a heavy duty pitman arm puller but things are more difficult and you may need to modify the puller a little. Not sure if there is a tool rental for Ducati's but this is one that I can attest is a bear to remove without the tool.

 

[Czakky]

I’ve got a three jaw puller and access to many gear pullers. I’ll see what I need to pull the bugger.

Also, I don’t see any gaskets and definitely see sealant. I assume it doesn’t have a gasket. In theory it doesn’t look hard to set crank preload.

 

[ducvet]

Its a space issue there is not much space as you will see but it can be done.

If you see gray sealer on the case halves you are after the paper gaskets so should be fine.

 

[Czakky]

I read about the starter sprag clutch failing from time to time. Is there anything to inspect here?
I’ve never messed with a sprag starter before, but have a basic understanding of how they work. I could see the spring failing, anything else?

 

[Czakky]

I’ll add some info to this as I check things out and hopefully don’t bother the gurus too much with dumb questions. Hopefully my shade tree mechanic perspective is useful to some even if most of this stuff has by this point been done to death…

While I’m building the gumption to pull the frame off the engine I checked out my cylinders and pistons for wear. It looked like the horizontal jug was the main culprit but the vertical showed some signs of oil burning too. It was burning roughly 1.5qts every 3k miles under pretty spirited Street riding.
Valve/guides on the exhaust side show wear but nothing excessive for 20k miles.
The only canary I could find was the horizontal second compression ring gap was roughly .5mm. There is clearly some signs of debris on the piston skirts but minor wear on the piston itself. Cylinders show about .0022” clearance each.
I had been running an open airbox with K&N filter. I’ve already got a stock paper filter on order….😉

 

[ducvet]

That ring gap is acceptable for the second ring as is the piston to cylinder gap, Was the bike smoking on acceleration?

Likely culprit for the oil usage is a combination of loose valve guides and loose nut riding the bike. If you do " pretty spirited Street riding " I am going to go out on a limb and guess you do a fair amount of engine braking. This is likely when you are siphoning oil out of the top end and burning it, With shot guides I have been able to consume almost a quart in one track day (100-150 miles). Inspect the cylinder for wear (damage) and glazing, if not damaged simply have the cross hatch cleaned up and re-use.

What was the gap on the oil rings?

Any wear through the nikasil needs to be replated.
If rings are bad consider aftermarket pistons matched to replated cylinders.
If you are buying aftermarket pistons and replating do a big bore kit.
If your cylinders are good but you are going high compression pistons be sure to measure piston to wall and if too loose replate to fit.

Picures of the piston skirt debris?
A failing main can put metal into the cylinder and then it gets embedded into the piston, another reason to change the mains maybe. Likewise dirt getting through a open pore airfilter will allow scoring.

 

[Czakky]

Sorry I forgot to add pics originally. Of course the scratches don’t show up very well with my phone camera. Maybe you can see the wear on the piston skirt at the bottom. These are JE high comp.
I have two sets of cylinders. Two horizontal one measures .002” one .003” vertical .002” .0022” clearance.

I’ve obviously got a leak on that cylinder plug or o-ring…

 

[ducvet]

Your leak is caused by the cylinder not sealing to the head, combustion gasses are causing the o-ring failure. Look at the sealing surface of the cylinder in your picture and you can see it does not match the intake side. You will want to lap this cylinder to the head to try and get it flat enough to seal.

I would run the best set of cylinders you have .002" would be best but .0022 -.003 is acceptable if the cylinder is fine. I have seen drop in hi-comps run as loose as .005" not what I would want but it should survive. The scuffing on the piston is from piston rock not debris not uncommon, is the cylinder out of round at all?

Rings for the JE will be wiseco so change them if you want they should be cheap.
How many miles are on the JE's?
As a FYI do not expect oem longevity from them I have changed them out after 20-30K miles

 

[Czakky]

About 5k on the pistons. 20k on bike.
I have the original pistons. They look good. I do really like how this bike was running w/high comp though.
The original cylinders have virtually no out of round detectable. One of the cylinders had maybe .0001” of taper. Hard to say though. This is an extra cylinder I’m not going to use.

By lapping the cylinders do you just use some lapping compound on the top cylinder sealing surface? Or just use a surface plate w/sandpaper?

 

[ducvet]

Lapping compound in the head and lap the cylinder like a valve.

 

[Czakky]

I get little pockets of time here and there. Managed to make some progress this weekend. Not the most graceful job on my part but if you’re careful you can pull an engine with ratchet straps, a small Jack and front/rear stands.

 

[Czakky]

Got the engine to the ground and brought it to my basement. I thought a Ducati engine would be lighter! Anyway no drama and she’s ready for disassembly.

checked/record timing marks. Took a bunch of pics.

 

[Czakky]

Cases fought me a little to split, unsurprisingly. I found the offending plug, wasn’t to badly worn. There was no identifying thread lock to be seen and no staking done…. Strange as there is some balance/machining plug that is staked. This is my third major bike rebuild this winter. I’m clearly a glutton for punishment.

When cases came apart hard as I tried to keep all shims where they belong I did manage to have two on the table that are a mystery.
I’ll post pics later if I can’t find them in the parts diagram.

 

[ducvet]

The factory did not believe in either staking or loctite during that time period, pity would have saved them $$$.

 

[Czakky]

So the primary drive on the right side end of the crank. The one Ducvet warned me about… I’m able to get purchase on it with my puller but I can’t tell how much force to use.


Is it an issue if the end that runs in the oil pressure sender mushrooms out a bit?

Sidenote: what a weird way to pickup oil pressure IMO.