Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner
  • Hey Everyone! Enter your bike HERE to be a part of this months Bike of the Month Challenge!
21 - 40 of 45 Posts

·
I'm NOT an AAAAA-d-m-i-n
Joined
·
210 Posts
Just in case your test results are the same as mine, I went ahead and looked at another possibility.

1) Unplug the 4 pin connector on the headlamp housing again (leave the relay in and the 10 pin connected).

2) Gain access to the ECU harness connectors from the back side. By that I mean you'll need to leave the ECU connected, but remove the cover that protects the wires going into the ECU. I don't know how to do this on the ECU you have.

3) Check for good continuity between the 4 pin male connector(pins 2 and 4) and pin 26 of the ECU.


DAMN THOSE STARS ARE BLOWING IT! FRIGGIN blew the 4-3 lead with under 3 minutes and now going to OT.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Need help again

Hey all,

I need help again! Sean with a lot of hard work got me a far way into checking out the electrical connections on the bike as seen throughout the post. We have narrowed (I think) it down to the left Engine Management System relay not getting juice to energize. We can get connectivity from the right handle bar switch up to the ECU. We can get connectivity up to the right EMS relay. And the ignition relay and right EMS relay will energize when tested. The bike does crank, however the fuel pump will not prime.

Sean has helped me a ton, but has gone into a Catatonic state after the Avs beat his beloved stars. I need the general forums help until he wakes up.

Anyone following this thread that has any ideas?

I promise to well document the solution when we find it and hopefully it will help the ms community.

Thanx,

P.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
263 Posts
I had almost the same problem you describe. I replaced the #1 relay under the seat after talking to one of the local service guys. Initially it was intermittent so I swapped the #1 and #2 relays and the problem seemed to clear. I was going to replace both relays since they aren't that expensive but I decided to try just one and put the #2 relay back and put a new one on #1. So far, so good...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Thx Matt,

I bought one new relay, and I have swapped out with both the EMS relays to no avail, however relays are cheap, so I may buy another just to be safe. Have you had any other electrical issues with your bike before? Melting wires?

Anyway, when I get this up in running we will have to hit left hand canyon or something, I noticed you are just next door. I'm in East Denver.

P.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
263 Posts
I haven't had any other electrical issues other than the low fuel light sending unit (or something) that was replaced right after I bought the bike under warranty.

I have a couple more maintenace items to check off the list and mine will be ready for serious riding again too... :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Next Step??

Hey all,

I'm trying to find a next step for attacking my Dead In Garage bike. I think I have isolated the problem to electricity reaching the left Engine Management Relay. However, I wan't to check the running of the fuel pump.

First, Does anyone know how to test the fuel pump. I think I remember an old post, where you can test the fuel pump by directly setting a 12 V source to it. Is this true? Also, if so, which pins on the four pin connector should I connect my battery to? By an electrical diagram that Sean kindly gave. I believe the top two wires, brown striped and black would be the two. Any ideas? Also is this the best area to supply the power source?

Second, I have tested my two EMS relays for clicking "energizing" using the test above made by Sean. The Right relay clicks (along with ignition relay, and engine attempting to turn over) however my left relay will not click/"energize. Talking to Sean, he believes his 748 model has the opposite relay click. The wiring diagram I have shows the two bikes being similar electrically. Any thoughts?

Third, I need advise from veteran posters. Is it best to keep working from this post or to summarize this post and start a new one??

Fourth, any thoughts from anyone is appreciated. Besides selling the bike, as bitchy as she has been, I'm still in love.

Thanks all,

Patrick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Patrick,

Just because you hear a clicking sound, it does not mean that a relay is working fine. I suggest your check the relays by measuring the resistance between the contacts. I wrote a post outlining how to do that. It is in this thread:

How to check a relay

You might also want to check your fuel filter. A clogged fuel filter can cause similar symptoms. I once had a situation where the bike was cutting out while riding. If I waited for 10 minutes and tried again, the bike would start. This got worse in time. After much trouble shooting, the cause was a dirty and clogged fuel filter.

Since most of your problem started when you replaced your regulator/rectifier, it might not be a bad idea to check that too. Here is a link on how to check your charging system:

Electrical system fault finding chart

Good luck,
-Fariborz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Thanks Fariboz,

Thanks for the response. I will check the fuel filter, and also the regulator/ rectifier. Thanks for the link, as most of my problems before were here. I will also check the relays using the multimeter.

I will also check the old links to see if I can find a way to check the fuel pump.

What is your thoughts on checing the fuel pump, and also I was told by someone that I should check into replacing the entire wiring harness!?!

Thanks for the help again,

Patrick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
247 Posts
Ptrick said:
Thanks Fariboz,

Thanks for the response. I will check the fuel filter, and also the regulator/ rectifier. Thanks for the link, as most of my problems before were here. I will also check the relays using the multimeter.

I will also check the old links to see if I can find a way to check the fuel pump.

What is your thoughts on checing the fuel pump, and also I was told by someone that I should check into replacing the entire wiring harness!?!

Thanks for the help again,

Patrick
Hello Patrick,

Over here you can buy 2 relays that look exactly the same but have differant pin outs. Are you sure that you have purchased the correct relay? They usually have the pinouts printed on the case.
My 996 had an intermittent stumble at 3000 rpm & replacing the relay fixed the problem.

Cheers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,000 Posts
Ptrick-- I'll take a stab at hot-wiring your fuel pump. I believe it's pins 1 and 2 of the 4 pin connector that is closest to where the wires dissapear into the tank.

I'm basing this on a MY2000 ST2 and ST4 wiring diagram. The ST machines are very close to the SBK bikes. And I really doubt that the 4 pin connector on the FI pump has changed. This manual is downloadable right from DUCATI.COM. The schematics are the last 2 pages, and pg.75 calls out some of the #'s on the schematics.

Pin 2 is negative (you should be able to verify that the harness side has close to zero Ohms to chassis or the (-) side of the battery. And Pin 1 should be +12V when the relay comes on. The "juice" side of the relay is fed by a 20A fuse right there under the seat (check to see if that fuse is good.). The switched side of the relay feeds the fuel pump, the coils, and one side of both of the injectors. (The other side of the inj. are "fired to gnd." by the ECU).

So, if you want to see if the pump is good, unplug the connector, run P/J#2 to -12V (ground), and stick a wire into P/J#1. Then run the other end of the wire to the +12V of the battery (or something else on the bike that has +12 live all the time) for just a 1/4 second, and see if: 1) you get current draw (you should see a small spark at this last point of contact); and 2) you hear the pump whir to life for that instant.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,000 Posts
I meant to add... Use this thread. Any time anyone replies to a thread, they go back to the "top"...the most recent ones on the list.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Ptrick said:
What is your thoughts on checking the fuel pump, and also I was told by someone that I should check into replacing the entire wiring harness!?!

Patrick
Patrick,

It does not hurt to check the fuel pump. The fuel pump either works or it doesn't. Pin 1 and 2 on the fuel pump connector are for the fuel pump. The black wire is ground and Brown/white wire is +12. You can connect the fuel pump to the battery +/-12 and see if it runs. Only run it for a second to see if it works.

If the fuel filter is clogged, the fuel pump will require a lot more current to run. This extra current reduces the available current for everything else. Also check your fuel lines inside the tank. They are known to split, reducing the fuel pressure in the lines.

I recommend against replacing the complete harness. That is like shooting in the dark. Since you do not know the cause of your problem, you might end up spending a whole bunch of time and money with no results. If it was me, I would try to find out what is causing the problem before replacing the harness. But do check the relays for proper resistance.

Let us know how you make out!

-Fariborz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Fuel pump runs, however.....

I hot wired my fuel pump with my battery and I heard it whirring as long as I held the contact. I accidently connected the other two wires on the 4 pin connector. One big spark and that was it. I bet I blew something with the fuel level and other sensor, so I may have to come back to that one later. Man, two steps forward and all.

Ok, I'm on to checking the relays.

P.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #35 ·
I think I found it !!

Hey all,

After checking my fuel pump, it whirred, and the relays, all seemed to show approx 0.1 ohms when energized, I think, it's a bitch to check the relays with one set of hands and no alligator clips. I decided to check between the 50 amp charging system fuse, and the 15 amp engine management fuse (mine is actually 20 amp from a swap out) and guess what no continuity. Then I checked from the 50 amp fuse to the 3 pin connector between these two points. Continuity. The last check was between the male part of the 3 pin and the 15 amp fuse. Nothing. Finally I exposed the wire that leads the the 15/20 amp inline fuse, and no connection. An earlier solder job had seperated.

After testing with the wires touching, the left engine management relay clicked/energized for the time that the fuel pump primes. With the fuel pump connected electrically (fuel connectors and vents left unconnected) the fuel pump primed. It sounded very pathetic, but it primed. I'm going to connect the hoses and solder the connector tommorow and give y'all the good news hopefully.

HOwever, I need help with soldering wires together. This is the second time a solder joint has seperated on my bike. What is the best way to connect two wires that have been cut back from a past melting point. After all this work, I want to do a closest to professional job as I can, and feel secure in my wire connectors.

Second, any idea why the fuel pump sound sick. Lines not connected? clogged fuel filter? (how do I get to this sucker) or just bad connection or worn down battery? I'll check battery voltage tommorow.

All help is way appreciated, and wish me luck.

Ptrick
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,295 Posts
Soldering correctly isn´t that hard. Just remember to get it hot enough that the solder is floating down through the leads of the connection. If you don´t know HOW, then ask someone who does. It´ll save you heartache and money.

And soldering isn´t strong. NEVER place any strain on soldered wires (that is..mechanical strain). It´s better to lenghten or replace wires then to have any form of stress on a soldered joint.

I soldered my "yellow" charging wires and they´ve kept going for 3 years now.

//amullo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
319 Posts
Patrick,

Looks like you are finally starting to get somewhere!

I recommend few things when soldering wires. Strip the insulation slightly more. Then twist the wires together before soldering. This will act as a strain relief. Then add some soldering wax to the twisted pair. This is very critical. When the wax is heated it achieves two things: a) It will burn any oil or other residue that might have been accidentally come into contact with the bare wires making a better adhesion surface, b) when the wax burns and turns into gas, it acts as a vacuum and sill suck the solder further into the gap between the wire strands.

It also sounds like your filter is dirty. Why? If your fuel filter is dirty, it will need more current to push the gas through the filter. The extra current, will heat up the wires. If there was a questionable solder on the wires before, the added heat will further weaken the solder. When pulling and inserting the connectors, ALWAYS, grab the connector and NEVER pull on the wires. This will ensure that there will no stress on the wires.

Lets us know how you make out!

-Fariborz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,000 Posts
Soldering takes a few things:

1) Pieces have to be CLEAN. Ever try to solder plumbing? The copper fittings, even though they look new, need to be scotch-brited shiney. This removes any oxide layers. Wiring is usually inherently cleaner, but if it's oil soaked...you got more work to do.

~30 to 50W solder gun will be needed (20W or less for electronics boards)

2) The joint needs to be mechanically tight. IOW, it's best to wind one wire tightly around the other, or take 2 or 3 wires and twist the ends together firmly.

3) make sure the joint can cool WITHOUT any motion. You'll get a cold solder joint if it's jostled when you remove the heat.

4) Use flux-core solder (flux is the "wax" that Fairborz mentioned). Put a dab of solder onto the iron tip. Feed a small amount at the tip/wire area. This does a couple of things...it gets a bit of flux into the area, and it dramatically increases the amount of heat transferred into the joint because of the molten-small blob surface area, and the way it sits against the wire. Continue heating. Then, add a touch more solder to the interface area. At some point, this added solder will wick into the joint. All this time heat is applied. Continue feeding solder (by now, you can move the application point to the wire itself) until the joint/splice fills with solder. Then remove the tip from the joint and allow it to cool.

Pratice first on a few pieces of scrap wire, 'till you get the hang of it. Even make a loose one and add motion to "see" what a cold solder joint looks like. Good solder joints look shiny; cold ones have a dull, sometimes globby look.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Before twisting wires together, prior to soldering, it is a good idea to slide a piece of shrink tubing over one of the wires and to one side from the joint (1/2" or so). After soldering, slide the tubing over the joint and warm it with a heat gun or another source to shrink it. Makes a much nicer finish than trying to wrap the joint with electrical tape.
 
21 - 40 of 45 Posts
Top