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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Dear all,

I recently started to look for a nice / "special" 916 or 996, had this in the back of my mind for a long time and thought it is finally time to go for it.
Seing the Superbike versions race in the flesh in the mid/late 90's was an experience still deeply engraved in me; the look, the noise.. I've been a Ducati lover ever since.
I've had a nice Sport Classic for a few years that I love, but it's still not a 916 :)

After much thinking and some home work the last few weeks (and some little chat with Sherpa whose SPS & R threads lighted back my fire for those bikes, thanks again to him :) ) I decided to shoot for the SPS versions as I see them as the ultimate road-legal evolution of the Desmoquattro engine that started my love for those bikes on the track back in the time.

It's still quite difficult for me to assess what is the "real market" for those bikes, especially given the little numbers and the wide variety of prices I see listed here and there.
For instance I can see most listed on ebay.uk are often well above the £14-17k mark, for no particularly "special" ones.
To be compared for instance with one example I've seen actually sell at a big auction, one owner very low miles etc.. (= what reads like top of the market for me for a stock bike) for the equivalent of 16k€.
Another one I'm aware of sold a few months ago in France for 11k€, but don't know the real details on it; just know it actually went for that amount after some time.

What's your experience on the actual selling prices on those bikes?
My overall "rookie" feeling is that most of those asking prices I see at £14k and over are too high and struggle to sell, unless it is a very special bike; and even in this case I'm not sure? I remember that special 955 US one for instance, been for sale for months I think?

Also my personal feeling/preference is too look for a bike that has been regularly used and well taken care of with known history, one that I could ride without issues and no afterthoughts, rather than a "collector / low miles" one that could be "too nice to really ride" in the end (and that helps on the budget too, which is nice)


So that's where I'm at right now, please don't hesitate to share any advice/input/experience on those great bikes, I'm sure I still have lots to learn.

Thanks!


NB/PS: I'm in the EU (France), so that's the market I'd be looking into first, as the cost & procedures to import and register a bike from elsewhere would be much higher unfortunately. Still, if the "right" bike is in the US, well I guess we'll have to make it work :)
 

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you can debate pricing all you want, but if there's not many around and you really want one, you pay what you have to to get one. simple.
Or you could build one...:grin2:
Granted, it won't have a numbered plaque, and it won't be a "real" SPS, but one could probably get to about 90% of the SPS experience for far less money going the bit by bit route.
I only bring this up because this is what I've done. And I don't mean any disrespect to a real SPS or her owners.
But if you start with a nicely appointed and maintained 996 (which in western Canada can be had for $8000 ish), add a set of SPS cams from our classifieds or ebay, or something similar from VeeTwo for what..? $1200 US ish, a close ratio tranny from a 748, and a set of hi comp Pistals just because, and you're going to have a motor that's most of the way towards the real SPS deal.
Yes, it won't have the P8 ecu and some of the lighter engine internals of the real thing, but if price or availability is an issue, then this could be a viable option.

But the OP wants a real SPS and I really really hope you can find what you're looking for over in France for a reasonable price. For a long time I've been under the spell of the mighty SPS, I totally understand why you want one. Since I've had a 996 since 2003 I decided to build an SPS bit by bit, what I'm calling my "Nearly" SPS. It won't be the "real" thing, but it's going to be a lot lighter, and if the tuning gods smile upon me, a bit more powerful..

I wish you good luck with your search! I'll let you know how my build turns out:smile2:
 

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SPS rocks

I have a low mileage 2000 SPS and its an awesome ride or better said, an awesome experience. I liked it so much I have built what I call an SPS++ from the ground up. Mag swinger and triples, superbike forks (7700s), mag wheels, built motor, CF tank. Once its up and running I will likely part with the SPS mainly since my wife says I have too many bikes.... unless we get our bigger house in the meantime (fingers crossed). Not really sure of the value, but I would guess as a pristine low mileage (4K) example I would expect 13-15K USD or so for her.. good luck in your search.. its worth it!
 

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I was going to suggest looking abroad. SPS bikes come up for sale once in a while here in New Zealand and they are usually 15-20k NZD (8-12k Euro). I was lucky and bought mine for under 15k NZD in 2014 but it was a bit of a state and required a fair amount of work. Not sure how much it would cost to ship and get it OTR though?
 

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Building one is a lot harder now a days with the parts being so rare... (ie expensive)

Here for example is some of the ridiculousness of pricing for these parts


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ducati-851...Corsa-Magnesium-Alternator-Cover/162848543931

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ducati-851...Corsa-Magnesium-Alternator-Cover/162848543931

Honestly, I have never seen them quite this high till I went to search for them... but either way you can see some people are pricing these parts as made of gold.

First, those are racing, not SPS parts. Second, that seller asks absurd prices--triple the market value is not uncommon, but if you notice, his auctions are best offer. Stuff sells for significantly less.
 

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First, those are racing, not SPS parts. Second, that seller asks absurd prices--triple the market value is not uncommon, but if you notice, his auctions are best offer. Stuff sells for significantly less.
Ha! Is that good old Leslie? I didn't realize he sells on eBay.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
No Problem HyperJB, that "Rossi" part auction actually almost made laugh out loud :grin2:

Thanks to all for the inputs.

Building one is not really an option to me as I don't really have the space nor the tools available those days (not even talking about the time..). Such project must be real fun though, looking forward to see yours complete vanduc996 and jim999.

bradblack, I could agree with your generic comment, but at the same time from my experience dealing with other type of "collectible" gear it's not because something is rare that whatever price "asked" by a seller is "fair' value, and that you don't have to do your homework to not "overpay". And it's not like you would only see one SPS for sale every 2 years either, there seem to often be at least a few for sale at one given time online so that you can compare.

Thanks for the headsup vtwin, mobile.de came up in a recent google search, my German is quite (very) rusty from my high school years but I'll keep it on my radar.
Btw about Germany, do you think the quite agressive salty roads in the winter there could be an issue to look for on the bike? (even if I would imagine such bike stays inside during all winter there, hopefully)

lukemillar, NZ prices seem quite good; I could look into import cost but I would guess few 1000s€ + 25% taxes at least on arrival..
 

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Ha! Is that good old Leslie? I didn't realize he sells on eBay.
I didn't say nuthin'.



Sry to thread jack but I had to mention this. That seller is selling the actual master off Rossi's 2003 motoGP bike. Pretty interesting and slightly funny he had it on a monster.
These generally aren't parts off his personal bikes, he buys and resells.
 

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bradblack, I could agree with your generic comment, but at the same time from my experience dealing with other type of "collectible" gear it's not because something is rare that whatever price "asked" by a seller is "fair' value, and that you don't have to do your homework to not "overpay". And it's not like you would only see one SPS for sale every 2 years either, there seem to often be at least a few for sale at one given time online so that you can compare.
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so they're not rare then? i thought you said they were.

what does fair have to do with it? if i owned one and wanted to sell it i'd want as much as i could get for it.

the whole issue with this, is that you can't buy a new one anymore. if you could, you'd be complaining how much a new one was, but that's all you'd have to complain about. because you can't get a new one, you have to buy a second hand one and so condition comes into it. this is a very old issue in the 851/888sp world.

someday you'll find one that someone is selling for a price you think is fair in a condition you're happy to accept. good luck.
 

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First price has everything to do with condition and specific model. The market values equivalent condition SP and SPS models differently. How special the version was; how significant it was in the model evolution; how rare it was, creates differences in valuation and collectors don't consider the different models interchangeable. Condition (mileage, originality, paint and finish quality, defects, history, service status) has a significant impact on price and given the age of these bikes, the condition of bikes for sale varies greatly, so the market price varies greatly. Secondly, the general market has much to do with the market value of these bikes. A couple of years ago 900SL and 900SP prices hit $10K for good examples, they currently trade around $6-7K. 888/851 similarly were higher years ago than they are now. When prices were rising, buyers were buying up increasingly high priced bikes for fear of getting left behind by the market. At present as best as I can tell SP and SPS prices are rising, so what may seem high today, has a potential to coulda woulda shoulda tomorrow..... Maybe you wait to find the best deal and end up getting left behind. Maybe you wait yand the market comes to you.

The net, to figure out the market you need to pick a specific model and year and then look at condition and then look at how many are for sale and how many have sold in the recent past. Remember when looking at auction results to include the buyer's premium if you use auction sales to try to determine value. Bonhams buyer premium for bikes under 50K is 15%, so if the 16k€ you referenced in your original post didn't include the premium, the real value would be 18.4k€. There are too many variables between SP and SPS production over the years and the condition of what is available to buy to provide a simple answer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I understand and agree with your points ray916mm, the wide variation of specs and particular being one big thing making it not so easy to assess prices to me.
About the particular auction example I was referancing, it was including premium (it can be found in a recent ad of one for sale in the US in the classifieds here a few pages down).

I don't think I have year preference among the SPS evolutions, I would think the later I can find within my budget the better?
Is that a shared understanding that those only got "better" between '97 and 2000?
On the look side also as an example I prefer the later Marchesini 5 spoke wheels to the earlier 3 spoke ones, so that would go in the right direction as well (even if I imagine you can easily swap those).


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someday you'll find one that someone is selling for a price you think is fair in a condition you're happy to accept. good luck.
I think we agree, that's the point.
To me one goal of doing such homework / learning before buying is to be able to determine as much as possible what would be the "fair value" I would attribute to a particular bike based on all its characteristics (condition, history, mods etc..), compared to the rest of the "market" at this given time. Knowing that one challenge of such small "market" is to have actuall selling price references, which can often be quite different from the listed prices (knowing as you said that as a seller one will almost always shoot for as much as he can, balances by how much he actually needs/wants to sell and is ready to wait for the potential buyer).
 

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I don't think I have year preference among the SPS evolutions, I would think the later I can find within my budget the better?
Is that a shared understanding that those only got "better" between '97 and 2000?
On the look side also as an example I prefer the later Marchesini 5 spoke wheels to the earlier 3 spoke ones, so that would go in the right direction as well (even if I imagine you can easily swap those).
Values are actually pretty consistent across the lifespan of the SPS. Performance was roughly the same and enough people appreciate the subtle differences year-to-year. Some people want the Cagiva graphics of the early ones, the one year only '98 graphics, the internal mods or CF additions, the 5 spoke wheels, the charcoal frame, or the (production) Ohlins forks. I've had a '98 and a '00.
Honestly, if I was looking for one I would take the best example and value. Year would not be a factor at all.
 
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I understand and agree with your points ray916mm, the wide variation of specs and particular being one big thing making it not so easy to assess prices to me.
About the particular auction example I was referancing, it was including premium (it can be found in a recent ad of one for sale in the US in the classifieds here a few pages down).

I don't think I have year preference among the SPS evolutions, I would think the later I can find within my budget the better?
Is that a shared understanding that those only got "better" between '97 and 2000?
On the look side also as an example I prefer the later Marchesini 5 spoke wheels to the earlier 3 spoke ones, so that would go in the right direction as well (even if I imagine you can easily swap those).

...
In general I believe the '97 SPS to be the most valuable. It was the lowest production, was produced in a single worldwide spec and was the first year for the 9X6 SPS. This is particularly true in the U.S. where the 97 SPS was not legal for road use and therefore were not imported in large numbers.

Conversely the next year when the SPS goes to market specific production, although total SPS production is larger, market specific production is smaller so it could be argued that different market versions make X market version "rarer". On top of this, the SPS spec gets better every year, so for a portion of the market this makes them more valuable than earlier versions. The situation in your specific market can have a big impact on the value assuming you want to ride on the street and depending on your local laws.

With all the preceding said, over the long run I think the earliest versions are gradually proving to be the most valued. As SPS performance is eclipsed by more and more modern bikes, being the first becomes more important than being the best. For a rider SPS, I would think it is best to focus on the last version.

FWIW
 

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In general I believe the '97 SPS to be the most valuable. It was the lowest production, was produced in a single worldwide spec and was the first year for the 9X6 SPS. This is particularly true in the U.S. where the 97 SPS was not legal for road use and therefore were not imported in large numbers.

Conversely the next year when the SPS goes to market specific production, although total SPS production is larger, market specific production is smaller so it could be argued that different market versions make X market version "rarer". On top of this, the SPS spec gets better every year, so for a portion of the market this makes them more valuable than earlier versions. The situation in your specific market can have a big impact on the value assuming you want to ride on the street and depending on your local laws.

With all the preceding said, over the long run I think the earliest versions are gradually proving to be the most valued. As SPS performance is eclipsed by more and more modern bikes, being the first becomes more important than being the best. For a rider SPS, I would think it is best to focus on the last version.

FWIW
In 1998, they were not street legal in the US and they are still world-wide spec. I have all of the paperwork for mine that says such and the bike and all materials are littered with the "competition use only" disclaimers and decals. Additionally, while there are a few more '98s here than '97s, it's not a substantially higher number. The '98s have some nice upgrades over the '97 but don't have the prestige of being the first year and don't have the Cagiva graphics. Still, I think that those two years are valued equally from what I've seen. That said, I actually think that nine16's statement is most correct: find the best bike at the best value and the year isn't really that important.

FWIW, I wouldn't mind adding a '97 to my little collection at some point. They're just different enough from the '98 that I think it would be cool and the old graphics and lack of carbon make it different in appearance too.
 

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In 1998, they were not street legal in the US and they are still world-wide spec. I have all of the paperwork for mine that says such and the bike and all materials are littered with the "competition use only" disclaimers and decals. Additionally, while there are a few more '98s here than '97s, it's not a substantially higher number. The '98s have some nice upgrades over the '97 but don't have the prestige of being the first year and don't have the Cagiva graphics. Still, I think that those two years are valued equally from what I've seen. That said, I actually think that nine16's statement is most correct: find the best bike at the best value and the year isn't really that important.

FWIW, I wouldn't mind adding a '97 to my little collection at some point. They're just different enough from the '98 that I think it would be cool and the old graphics and lack of carbon make it different in appearance too.
Per Ian Falloon

1997 916SPS - 404 worldwide (i.e.not broken down by country)
1998 916SPS - 958 Europe, 100 USA
1998 916SPS Fogarty - 202 England
 

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Brad has it right - End of the day, something is worth whatever someone else is willing to pay for it! Simple. I got very lucky with mine and paid very little. It was a mess and needed a fair amount of work but if the guy had added another 5k to the price, I still would have paid it! I also bought the bike (and my previous 916 SP3) completely unseen. Deals were done via email and the first time I saw both bikes were as I was wheeling them into my garage. The reason being, if I didn't want to buy that particular SP/SPS then I wouldn't be buying one at all since there are so few for sale. Pretty sure only 2x '97 SPS made it to New Zealand and I now own 1 of them!
 
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