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I've got a 97 900 ss/sp that is mostly stock other than high compression pistons and fcr41s and some nice carbon fiber covers. Originally, all I wanted to do with it was swap for a solo seat and high pipes and maybe get a nicer front fender and rear hugger. I don't track the bike at all, just regular street riding.

Then this week, I picked up a 750ss track bike that I'm parting out. Among other parts it has marchesini 5 spoke wheels on it. Ive never been a big fan of the stock 3 spoke wheels, but it seemed like changing them would cost more than I wanted to spend. But now that I have the wheels sitting here, I want to use them. I haven't pulled the marchesinis off the 750 yet, but, from what i can see, it looks like its using the stock 750 axle with a spacer in place of the speedo drive and the bearing on the speedo drive side is wide enough that a speedo drive wouldnt be possible. Since I want to use my stock speedo, I cant just swap it on as is. So now Im trying to figure what my options are. I suppose ill need to know what model the wheel is from unless theyre all the same, I dont really know. Then I'm wondering if its better to get sleeves and spacers made and get the speedo drive parts and put them together or just swap the whole front end from something else. I have on the shelf a complete front end from a 97 748s and I have a 2000 748 that Im going to be parting out that I could take parts from. Ideally, the wheel will bolt right up to the 97 748 front end and i can just swap it on. The question then becomes, is it an upgrade, downgrade or lateral swap to put 748s forks on my 900ss. I don't know enough about the bikes to know whats better or worse. I really just want to get the wheels that I like better visually onto the bike. Any help or advice will be much appreciated.
 

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I've got a 97 900 ss/sp that is mostly stock other than high compression pistons and fcr41s and some nice carbon fiber covers. Originally, all I wanted to do with it was swap for a solo seat and high pipes and maybe get a nicer front fender and rear hugger. I don't track the bike at all, just regular street riding.

Then this week, I picked up a 750ss track bike that I'm parting out. Among other parts it has marchesini 5 spoke wheels on it. Ive never been a big fan of the stock 3 spoke wheels, but it seemed like changing them would cost more than I wanted to spend. But now that I have the wheels sitting here, I want to use them. I haven't pulled the marchesinis off the 750 yet, but, from what i can see, it looks like its using the stock 750 axle with a spacer in place of the speedo drive and the bearing on the speedo drive side is wide enough that a speedo drive wouldnt be possible. Since I want to use my stock speedo, I cant just swap it on as is. So now Im trying to figure what my options are. I suppose ill need to know what model the wheel is from unless theyre all the same, I dont really know. Then I'm wondering if its better to get sleeves and spacers made and get the speedo drive parts and put them together or just swap the whole front end from something else. I have on the shelf a complete front end from a 97 748s and I have a 2000 748 that Im going to be parting out that I could take parts from. Ideally, the wheel will bolt right up to the 97 748 front end and i can just swap it on. The question then becomes, is it an upgrade, downgrade or lateral swap to put 748s forks on my 900ss. I don't know enough about the bikes to know whats better or worse. I really just want to get the wheels that I like better visually onto the bike. Any help or advice will be much appreciated.
There are a few threads on 900SS wheel swaps here in the forum that have more details. The Marchesini 5 spoke cast wheels are originally a 25mm axle and should drop right into the 748 forks, assuming the correct 25mm bearings and bearing spacer are in it. The Superbike forks are generally considered a good upgrade to the SS forks but will require boring the SS top triple and shimming the bottom one, or replacing with a Cyclecat triple that are rare as hens teeth these days.

The 748 had a mechanical speedo on a 25mm axle, swap the guts in the senders so that 25mm sender has the guts from the SS in it. The speedometer senders are not made to be taken apart. Once you do though, you'll find that all the parts swap around pretty easily. The guts are geared to match the speedo gauge installed in the dashboard. Using the 748 sender without modifying it will tend to show you something like 2.5x your actual speed.

The rear wheel will go right on with no fuss.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Good deal. I was thinking maybe it would be possible to swap the 748 triple over the 900ss maybe with different bearings or something. Ill have to do some more searching and see what has been done.
 

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Annnnnd Down the rabbit hole we go.....:grin2:

Not to discourage you from swapping things around but before you go too far ask yourself why your wheel does not work. I did see the 5 spoke front (25mm axle wheel) running a solid axle from the 750. There should be a ability to mount up a mechanical speedo drive in place of a spacer. Later wheels that did not use a speedo drive did still usually have the casting for the speedo drive (25mm). I would expect the 25mm speedo drive fit into the wheel would work just fine.

Can you show a picture of the left side of the hub?

A 25mm speedo drive should be fine with your speedo, if you get one from a 748 (120/60) it may read off more than normal buy may be more accurate than one from a monster,ST or 996,998 that runs a 120/70. Keep in mind we change 120/60 tires to 120/70 all the time so the change in read speeds are minimal.
 

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Annnnnd Down the rabbit hole we go.....<img src="http://www.ducati.ms/forums/images/Ducati_ms_2015/smilies/tango_face_grin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />

Not to discourage you from swapping things around but before you go too far ask yourself why your wheel does not work. I did see the 5 spoke front (25mm axle wheel) running a solid axle from the 750. There should be a ability to mount up a mechanical speedo drive in place of a spacer. Later wheels that did not use a speedo drive did still usually have the casting for the speedo drive (25mm). I would expect the 25mm speedo drive fit into the wheel would work just fine.

Can you show a picture of the left side of the hub?

A 25mm speedo drive should be fine with your speedo, if you get one from a 748 (120/60) it may read off more than normal buy may be more accurate than one from a monster,ST or 996,998 that runs a 120/70. Keep in mind we change 120/60 tires to 120/70 all the time so the change in read speeds are minimal.
The bearing that was used is too wide.
 

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OK I know this is going to get some flak from some people, I also understand people like to tinker with their bikes. BUT ask yourself a few questions---Is this a bike that you are going to keep long term or sell it soon? If it is a real SP they are far rarer then a basic 900ss-( I have an early 91 900SS) If this is a bike you are planning on keeping for long term remember one thing--The more original it is--the more it will be worth. Modified bikes-( I am a BMW collector) never ever bring the money that an original un-molested bike will. Small little things -( My 91 900SS -I have put an SP Carbon Ft Fender & Carbon Tech High pipes & a Solo Superlight seat on it--But I have the original parts to put back on it and can put it back to stock original in less then 1/2 an hour) In the long run the bike will be worth more absolutely bone stock--to a collector. Now if the money does not mean anything to you & you dont care about what it will be worth in the future then do what you want--But remember any modifications that are not easy to reverse and that you do not have the parts to make the reversion WILL in the long run detract from the value of the bike. Remember This comes from from a collector and is from the stand point of a collector, and these bikes are getting to the vintage where collectors are looking
 

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Discussion Starter #9
OK I know this is going to get some flak from some people, I also understand people like to tinker with their bikes. BUT ask yourself a few questions---Is this a bike that you are going to keep long term or sell it soon? If it is a real SP they are far rarer then a basic 900ss-( I have an early 91 900SS) If this is a bike you are planning on keeping for long term remember one thing--The more original it is--the more it will be worth. Modified bikes-( I am a BMW collector) never ever bring the money that an original un-molested bike will. Small little things -( My 91 900SS -I have put an SP Carbon Ft Fender & Carbon Tech High pipes & a Solo Superlight seat on it--But I have the original parts to put back on it and can put it back to stock original in less then 1/2 an hour) In the long run the bike will be worth more absolutely bone stock--to a collector. Now if the money does not mean anything to you & you dont care about what it will be worth in the future then do what you want--But remember any modifications that are not easy to reverse and that you do not have the parts to make the reversion WILL in the long run detract from the value of the bike. Remember This comes from from a collector and is from the stand point of a collector, and these bikes are getting to the vintage where collectors are looking
Yeah. I couldnt care less about that. I didnt pay much for the bike. Its already not all original and even if it was they still arent worth much.
 

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Well it all depends on prospective, I have 3 BMW R68 motorcycles--now this is the rarest of all post WW2 BMW motorcycles 1452 built world wide from 1952- mid year 1954. Now 20 years ago none had sold for over $10K, Now a rat bag will bring $40K and a really nice original or a full restoration--(back to perfect factory spec) will bring $100K or over. So it's a matter of time where they will be worth a good deal of money. Remember this the lower the production number Then the higher the value in the future---I sold a bike a few years ago--I owned a 2001 MV Agusta 750 F4 Neiman Marcus bike--there were only 10 built, I sold it when it was 14 years old--& I sold it for what it sold for new--the only reason--It was a rare bike ( low production numbers) & in near perfect original condition. The person that purchased the bike from me is a collector and paid a premium price for the chance to own one, The Ducati 900 SP will fall into this niche market only because of the low number produced each year. Keep in mind I look at vintage bikes as an investment where I can hold on to them for a while and then sell them for a good profit, my vintage motorcycles are my retirement fund, I will ride and enjoy them while I can But in the long run they are an investment & the point where they are worth the most to the largest number of serious people with the $$$$ is original & bone stock. But of course it's your bike and your money so do whatever you wish to do to it---and when you decide to sell it you will get a fraction of the value compared to an original
 

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It looks like they may have even machined the hub to fit this bearing and maybe a speedo drive isnt even possible anymore. Ill get it apart tomorrow and get a better idea.
What does the other side look like? I mean, if that is the left side of the bike, where the speedo drive should be, it doesn't look like the left side of the wheel. It looks like the right side of the wheel like the wheel is installed the wrong way around.

As the bearings for the stock 1997 wheel would have a 20mm ID, a 25mm ID is either from a later 1999 or so as they used a 25mm ID bearing. So, if you have a set of wheels from a later bike with the 25mm ID bearings and you want to use your 1997 forks and axle, just get a set of 20mm ID bearings.

IIRC on my 1993, which came with a 17mm axle, I swapped the front wheel for one from a 1999 SS that came to me with 25mm ID bearings and wheel spacer so it wouldn't work with the new to me forks I have from a 1996. A set of Timken bearings, PN 6204-2RS will fit the newer wheels and have the proper ID to fit the axle on your 1997 forks.

The speedo drive was not a machined deal on my 1993. Rather there was a spacer that went into the left hand side of the wheel that had two slots in it. The drive pins fit into those two slots and the speedo drive pins positioned outboard to drive the speedo drive set. It was slightly different on the later wheel but set up nearly identical to the old one. IIRC there was a pair of tabs cast in that kept the spacer from spinning. I'll get a pic of that if you like.

Hope this of some help....the seal that you see could be hiding the drive part as there was a slight recess for the speedo drive set to drop into...if the wheel is indeed installed correctly that is.....sean
 

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Since I'm a huge fan of the 5-spoke rims I read threads like this with great interest.

I can buy a 800 SSie 5-spoke rear wheel (17mm axle) rather cheap (€150). I would like to buy that mostly because I think (if all these wheel-swap threads are correct) this wheel is a direct fit for my '97 900SS.

But then the front-wheel problem comes up... Obviously, I don't wanna end up with a 5-spoke rear and a 3-spoke front wheel.

I don't like the idea of making my own spacers, trying to fit the right bearings, fabricating things to make the speedo work,...

And that's where I'm getting confused.
Some say you can mill the inside of the wheel down to fit the correct bearings, others say that you can not do that (and stay safe at the same time).
Some say the speedo can be transferred with the five spoke rim. Others say you have to adjust things, make things, disassemble and re-assemble things,...
And then I don't even talk about brake discs offset, calipers, spacers...

I'm afraid that in the end I better should have bought a new OZ Piega set of wheels. Easier to fit and all together; not even that much more expensive then al the above...
But €2000 for a wheel-set? No thanks, I don't like the five spoke look that much...
I can already hear my wallet go "Really? Just for the 2 extra spokes?"

The other solution appears to be swapping the complete front (fork, wheel, brake discs, brake calipers,...) with one coming from an ST. But changing the whole front just because I like the look of a 5-spoke wheel... mwah. I'm happy with my fork as it is and who knows what I'll get when I buy another one...

So; are these two methods (trying to fit a 25mm-axle wheel vs a complete front swap) really the only two options if I wanna fit a 5 spoke front wheel?
 

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Well it all depends on prospective, I have 3 BMW R68 motorcycles--now this is the rarest of all post WW2 BMW motorcycles 1452 built world wide from 1952- mid year 1954. Now 20 years ago none had sold for over $10K, Now a rat bag will bring $40K and a really nice original or a full restoration--(back to perfect factory spec) will bring $100K or over. So it's a matter of time where they will be worth a good deal of money. Remember this the lower the production number Then the higher the value in the future---I sold a bike a few years ago--I owned a 2001 MV Agusta 750 F4 Neiman Marcus bike--there were only 10 built, I sold it when it was 14 years old--& I sold it for what it sold for new--the only reason--It was a rare bike ( low production numbers) & in near perfect original condition. The person that purchased the bike from me is a collector and paid a premium price for the chance to own one, The Ducati 900 SP will fall into this niche market only because of the low number produced each year. Keep in mind I look at vintage bikes as an investment where I can hold on to them for a while and then sell them for a good profit, my vintage motorcycles are my retirement fund, I will ride and enjoy them while I can But in the long run they are an investment & the point where they are worth the most to the largest number of serious people with the $$$$ is original & bone stock. But of course it's your bike and your money so do whatever you wish to do to it---and when you decide to sell it you will get a fraction of the value compared to an original
When I was young we used to ask farmers in the neighborhood if they had some kind of old 50cc or light motorbike somewhere hidden in a shed or barn. Just to have fun in the woods or on farmland after the corn had been harvested. I was like 10 years old back then.

And now; 40 years later, I see these 50cc bikes on oldtimer websites for €1000, €2000, €5000,... We bought those things for like 20 Belgian Franks, which is half a euro... And then go dirtbiking with them. Completly wrecked after a few days or weeks. Up to the next one. Lots of farms where I lived. Lot of bikes destroyed.

So yes, if I should not have wrecked those bikes but nicely stored them in a shed, I would have a wonderfull and priceless collection now. Zundapp, Kreidler, Flandria, Puch, Garelli, Minarelli... I had them all. And wrecked them all.

But hey, you can't keep them all.
And we had fun. Loads of fun. Which is also priceless...



What I really wanna say is; we had fun (or did I allready say that?), more fun then money can buy.

:wink2:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
It looks like they may have even machined the hub to fit this bearing and maybe a speedo drive isnt even possible anymore. Ill get it apart tomorrow and get a better idea.
What does the other side look like? I mean, if that is the left side of the bike, where the speedo drive should be, it doesn't look like the left side of the wheel. It looks like the right side of the wheel like the wheel is installed the wrong way around.

As the bearings for the stock 1997 wheel would have a 20mm ID, a 25mm ID is either from a later 1999 or so as they used a 25mm ID bearing. So, if you have a set of wheels from a later bike with the 25mm ID bearings and you want to use your 1997 forks and axle, just get a set of 20mm ID bearings.

IIRC on my 1993, which came with a 17mm axle, I swapped the front wheel for one from a 1999 SS that came to me with 25mm ID bearings and wheel spacer so it wouldn't work with the new to me forks I have from a 1996. A set of Timken bearings, PN 6204-2RS will fit the newer wheels and have the proper ID to fit the axle on your 1997 forks.

The speedo drive was not a machined deal on my 1993. Rather there was a spacer that went into the left hand side of the wheel that had two slots in it. The drive pins fit into those two slots and the speedo drive pins positioned outboard to drive the speedo drive set. It was slightly different on the later wheel but set up nearly identical to the old one. IIRC there was a pair of tabs cast in that kept the spacer from spinning. I'll get a pic of that if you like.

Hope this of some help....the seal that you see could be hiding the drive part as there was a slight recess for the speedo drive set to drop into...if the wheel is indeed installed correctly that is.....sean
The wheel is installed correctly. The spokes would be going the wrong way if it were reversed. The other side looks identical.
 

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I would start by driving out the left side bearing. You very likely will find a cast in cut below that is the wheel side of a speedo drive, if you do not have the cast in slots Iwannaduc mentioned then that wheel is a newer model that never had a mechanical drive. Most 5 spoke front wheels that used the electronic speedo drive still had the casting for the 25mm axle speedo drive. I assume they made different internal spacers to use bearings sized for the small front axle. Often the bearings are a different width (skinny 25mm axle Id -fat small axle Id) as there is no direct bearing swap from what I know to convert 25mm to small axle. That would be too easy. :frown2:

Given the parts you have you have 2 routes as I see it convert your front end to a 25mm axle with new forks or convert the wheel to small axle. I would think carefully which one you WANT more (cost vs benefits) and make a plan. Look at what you currently own for parts and decide if the conversion is worth the time and money. I would guess that converting the wheel would be easier and cheaper but if that wheel conversion is not possible to convert for a drive then simply find one that can be converted or use a different speedo with hall sensor.
 

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I'm probably confused about which bike OP wants the wheels put onto but if this is the picture of his dash - why not go with the GPS option?

 

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IIRC he is mining parts off the 750ss and putting them on his carby 900.

The race bike did not need the speedo drive so it is a converted and spaced wheel but the conversion removed the drive. I think he said he had a 748 front end so he may have a speedo drive to test fit for wheel alignment after removing the bearings. Easiest test fit would be to fit up the front 748 wheel and speedo to check for alignment first and if that works then adapt it down to a small axle. Rotors need to be centered in the calipers, if this is not possible (it should be) then it is not worth the effort.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I would start by driving out the left side bearing. You very likely will find a cast in cut below that is the wheel side of a speedo drive, if you do not have the cast in slots Iwannaduc mentioned then that wheel is a newer model that never had a mechanical drive. Most 5 spoke front wheels that used the electronic speedo drive still had the casting for the 25mm axle speedo drive. I assume they made different internal spacers to use bearings sized for the small front axle. Often the bearings are a different width (skinny 25mm axle Id -fat small axle Id) as there is no direct bearing swap from what I know to convert 25mm to small axle. That would be too easy. <img src="http://www.ducati.ms/forums/images/Ducati_ms_2015/smilies/tango_face_sad.png" border="0" alt="" title="Frown" class="inlineimg" />

Given the parts you have you have 2 routes as I see it convert your front end to a 25mm axle with new forks or convert the wheel to small axle. I would think carefully which one you WANT more (cost vs benefits) and make a plan. Look at what you currently own for parts and decide if the conversion is worth the time and money. I would guess that converting the wheel would be easier and cheaper but if that wheel conversion is not possible to convert for a drive then simply find one that can be converted or use a different speedo with hall sensor.
I should have a chance to get the wheel off tomorrow. So first thing will be getting the left bearing off to see what Ive got. If its all going to be too complicated, I may just do nothing. Im kind of leaning towards going to the 748 front end swap, but I'll see whats going to be easiest/cheapest.
 

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I went and did a little bit of research on the bearings. I found the P/N for a later model 996. Mainly, the same one I have because it has the 5 spoke wheels and the 25mm axle.

The Ducati P/N shown, 70250451A replaces 751622566 but both correspond to a generic bearing P/N of 6005/2RS C3. The dimensions of that bearing are OD 47mm X ID 25mm X 12mm wide.

The bearing that I sourced to replace my 17mm ID bearings from the older style wheel are 6204 2RS C3 with dimensions of OD 47mm X ID 20mm X 14mm wide.

I double checked and cross referenced these numbers to make sure they were accurate. Also looked to see if there were any 20 mm ID bearings that were narrower than 14mm and didn't find any.

Without looking at the wheel you have and the internal spacer that goes between the bearings, I cannot determine if you could just shorten the width of the spacer to allow for the extra 4 mm required by using the fatter bearings.

If so, that's the way to simply use the OEM stuff you already have just by changing out the bearings. That's like $30 for high quality Timken bearings on Amazon. Less if you go with another brand.......sean
 

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I would personally stay with a top quality bearing, In my shop I will use nothing but - in no particular order--Timken, SKF, F.A.G. --If it says made in China I will avoid it like the plague lol--Just my O.P.O.
 
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