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Discussion Starter #1
Just a curious question, that i wanted to ask out of boredom, more then anything.

I was discussing a possible future purchase with an acquaintance of mine that works at the local Ducati Dealer in parts.

According to him, he's tried most all the newer superbikes from Ducati (minus the 1199). And according to him, his pick would be an 848 hands down. When i asked why, due to lack of power, he explained how the 848 is amazing in the corners. He trackday'd it, and said the 1098 and 1198 guys couldn't keep up (minus straights of course). Because he could get on the throttle so much quicker and pull so much harder outta the corner, that it took a lot for them to get it back on the straights.

According to him, the 1098 and 1198 just dont corner nearly as good as the 848.

Anyone that's played iwth both these bikes in corners, able to speak out on the subject? I'm curious. I'm more of a guy that wants to learn to corner/trackday, more then wheelie down a straightaway. if i wanted straightaway shots and powerwheelies, i'd be more for the gsxr's etc.

But i find it hard to believe that an 848 would outperform a 1098 on a track....
 

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:rolleyes:Its basically the same bike! They will corner the same with the 1098/1198 yanking off a corner leaving a 848 in the dust.With equal riders of corse. It is so tiring of people thinking because the have a less displacement bike that its SO much lighter that its got to just kill anything with larger displacement in the corners. This was true 15 years ago, but not today.
The weight differance of an GSXR750/1000 Yamaha R6/R1 Honda 600RR/1000RR Ducati 848/1098(Panagale) is now negligable.With equal riders, the big bike now wins..
 

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+1

Just because your friend said the guys on 1198's could barely keep up with him doesn't mean the 848 is better, it just means he's a better rider. Last time I went to the track, there was a guy there with a Ninja 250 who was lapping about 4 seconds quicker than me on my 1198. It's all about skill for the most part. Granted certain tracks that are curvier and smaller will pretty much eliminate the need for a bigger bike, but for the most part the 1198 will outperform an 848 with the same rider.

Now if you're a beginner like me, an 848 would probably be easier to learn on than an 1198 due to its lower power. You might learn faster and have less "oh shit" moments on the 848.

EDIT: forgot to mention that the weight difference between a 848 and 1198 is about 7-8 lbs...which is very negligible for most of us mortal non-GP riders. After putting slip-ons on my 1198, it is now basically the same weight as a stock 848.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Ahhh! Good to know! =)

:rolleyes:Its basically the same bike! They will corner the same with the 1098/1198 yanking off a corner leaving a 848 in the dust.With equal riders of corse. It is so tiring of people thinking because the have a less displacement bike that its SO much lighter that its got to just kill anything with larger displacement in the corners. This was true 15 years ago, but not today.
The weight differance of an GSXR750/1000 Yamaha R6/R1 Honda 600RR/1000RR Ducati 848/1098(Panagale) is now negligable.With equal riders, the big bike now wins..
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yeah, i was thinking that. (the whole 848 being easier to learn), i've been street riding forever, but it's a completely different riding then getting on the track no matter how fast you are on the street.

Thanks for the input guys!

+1

Just because your friend said the guys on 1198's could barely keep up with him doesn't mean the 848 is better, it just means he's a better rider. Last time I went to the track, there was a guy there with a Ninja 250 who was lapping about 4 seconds quicker than me on my 1198. It's all about skill for the most part. Granted certain tracks that are curvier and smaller will pretty much eliminate the need for a bigger bike, but for the most part the 1198 will outperform an 848 with the same rider.

Now if you're a beginner like me, an 848 would probably be easier to learn on than an 1198 due to its lower power. You might learn faster and have less "oh shit" moments on the 848.
 

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If you are serious about track riding, and especially racing, consider what classes are open to you and buy based on the best bike for those classes. My guess is an 848 would give you more opportunities to race ...
 

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Getting out of the corner big bike, small bike it's all in the throttle control.
 

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The guy on the 848 was probably more confident on getting out of the corners than the 1198 guys. I've ridden both and instantly found the 848 confidence inspiring whereas the 1198 I now own still makes me a little nervous of whacking open the throttle. The pickup at 7k rpm is brutal, whereas the 848 feels more linear to me. I'd feel alright about getting on the 848 gas while a bit banked over, the 1198 i'd want straight up. Also the gearing on the 1198 is ver tall, so screw up a downshift and end up in too high a gear and you will be punished, speed wise.

As others have said, the handling will be almost identical, the rest is about the rider and confidence is a maor part of that. I'd take the 848 if you want to get confident quick. If you want the ultimate power of the bigger bike, be prepared to spend more time getting to know it.
 

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The guy on the 848 was probably more confident on getting out of the corners than the 1198 guys. I've ridden both and instantly found the 848 confidence inspiring whereas the 1198 I now own still makes me a little nervous of whacking open the throttle. The pickup at 7k rpm is brutal, whereas the 848 feels more linear to me. I'd feel alright about getting on the 848 gas while a bit banked over, the 1198 i'd want straight up. Also the gearing on the 1198 is ver tall, so screw up a downshift and end up in too high a gear and you will be punished, speed wise.

As others have said, the handling will be almost identical, the rest is about the rider and confidence is a maor part of that. I'd take the 848 if you want to get confident quick. If you want the ultimate power of the bigger bike, be prepared to spend more time getting to know it.
Precisely what he said. Only difference between the bikes would be the 848 would have friendlier gearing due to lower power and just give the rider a bit of extra confidence and sense of control over the bike. Weight etc. should be pretty close to identical.
 

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Many 1000cc riders rely on the power and have the wrong entry speed into the corners and they can´t use the power on the exit. Often riders with smaller 600cc engines are more fluent and lap faster times. We are talking about amatures right? It is mostly up to the riders skill. Not so much the bike on that level.
 

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Many 1000cc riders rely on the power and have the wrong entry speed into the corners and they can´t use the power on the exit. Often riders with smaller 600cc engines are more fluent and lap faster times. We are talking about amatures right? It is mostly up to the riders skill. Not so much the bike on that level.
Agreed. Skill wins over power for most. I used to enjoy passing guys on the latest greatest 1000's with my carbed old school CBR600. Then I crashed and my lap times went way down. The confidence is taking a LONG time to come back. Sucks.
 

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I love the brutality of the 1198. Sure, on short tracks, you are toe to toe with the 600s, but when the tracks get bigger, an 1198 will dust an 848. But I agree that all of this depends on the rider.

If you are a beginner, get an 848 and spend the difference on a proper suspension set up and a bunch of lessons from Keith Code.

If you outgrow an 848 [hard to do] - get an 1198S/P with traction control. You can pin it out of the apexes and not worry about high sides.
 

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I love the brutality of the 1198. Sure, on short tracks, you are toe to toe with the 600s, but when the tracks get bigger, an 1198 will dust an 848. But I agree that all of this depends on the rider.

If you are a beginner, get an 848 and spend the difference on a proper suspension set up and a bunch of lessons from Keith Code.

If you outgrow an 848 [hard to do] - get an 1198S/P with traction control. You can pin it out of the apexes and not worry about high sides.
lets not get too crazy here...TC helps, but it doesn't save you against high-sides. MotoGP and WSBK bikes all have the latest TC technology and they still high-side
 

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Discussion Starter #15
If you are serious about track riding, and especially racing, consider what classes are open to you and buy based on the best bike for those classes. My guess is an 848 would give you more opportunities to race ...
i am VERY serious about track racing. I wont do it on my 996, because it is literally my dream bike of all the ducati styles, and i'm scared shitless of scuffing up the frame, etc. I've always rode the hell out of every bike i've owned up til this 996....just to fearful to dmg my beauty. heh.

Any other bike, i'd try pushing my limits without a second thought on the track.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Btw, a TON of great posts! Thank you, thank you, Thank you!

I am an average rider (at best) on the street, never been on the track. But as stated in my previous post just above this, its where i want to take my riding for the next lvl.

There are a handful of guys i ride iwth, that could outride me on the street. Part of it is lack of confidence on my part, part of it is not wanting to dmg the bike, and the bigger part of it is thinking about variables on the street i can't control.....dirt, oil, bad bumps in corner, cars pulling out, etc.

But i would be completely new on the track. And my gut tells me, i would do quite well at it.

My mind tells me 848. I like the idea of outriding someone, with a smaller bike.
But in all honesty, the 1198 just sounds amazing, cause i've always wanted a car or bike, that you had to respect 110% because it had brutal brutal power.

(not that you dont have to respect an 848, but you know what i mean).

I was talking with a guy at my nearest Ducati dealer, about financing an 848. he said his leftover 2011 848 evo, has a 2.99% finance rate atm. and said it MSRP's for 13,995, but that he might be able to cut me a better deal.
 

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Btw, a TON of great posts! Thank you, thank you, Thank you!

I am an average rider (at best) on the street, never been on the track. But as stated in my previous post just above this, its where i want to take my riding for the next lvl.

There are a handful of guys i ride iwth, that could outride me on the street. Part of it is lack of confidence on my part, part of it is not wanting to dmg the bike, and the bigger part of it is thinking about variables on the street i can't control.....dirt, oil, bad bumps in corner, cars pulling out, etc.

But i would be completely new on the track. And my gut tells me, i would do quite well at it.

My mind tells me 848. I like the idea of outriding someone, with a smaller bike.
But in all honesty, the 1198 just sounds amazing, cause i've always wanted a car or bike, that you had to respect 110% because it had brutal brutal power.

(not that you dont have to respect an 848, but you know what i mean).

I was talking with a guy at my nearest Ducati dealer, about financing an 848. he said his leftover 2011 848 evo, has a 2.99% finance rate atm. and said it MSRP's for 13,995, but that he might be able to cut me a better deal.
if you have the money, go do it, but personally I think $14k is way too much for a track-only bike. I've tracked my 1198 a few times (only bike currently), but I plan on sometime getting a 600cc bike to convert into a track bike. Don't really plan on spending more than $5k or so because I know I will trash at the track sooner or later.
 

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...I wont do it on my 996, because it is literally my dream bike of all the ducati styles, and i'm scared shitless of scuffing up the frame, etc...
+1 Exactly! My R is NEVER going to see a track, street only. It took me years to find a pristine example of this bike... Pristine is how it's going to stay.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Avai, oops i didn't mean a track only bike. I meant a bike i could street ride, and take to the track as well to play with whenever we a public track day. (too afraid to demolish my pristine 996, which is why i'm thinking 2nd bike). The only, and closest track to me is Shubenacadie in Nova Scotia.

And according to their schedule...you could only go a total of 7 times for a public track day. and another 2 days for the school. reality is, i wouldn't make it that much i dont think. Doesn't really warrant converting a bike to fully track for me.

Was just looking, and it looks like 600's have the best lap times on this track....or i could be reading this wrong.

Atlantic Motorsport Park Official Website



So question to you seasoned track guys. What did each of you start on? A smaller displacement bike and work up? Or right in on a bigger displacement, and learn it?
 

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Avai, oops i didn't mean a track only bike. I meant a bike i could street ride, and take to the track as well to play with whenever we a public track day. (too afraid to demolish my pristine 996, which is why i'm thinking 2nd bike). The only, and closest track to me is Shubenacadie in Nova Scotia.

And according to their schedule...you could only go a total of 7 times for a public track day. and another 2 days for the school. reality is, i wouldn't make it that much i dont think. Doesn't really warrant converting a bike to fully track for me.

Was just looking, and it looks like 600's have the best lap times on this track....or i could be reading this wrong.

Atlantic Motorsport Park Official Website



So question to you seasoned track guys. What did each of you start on? A smaller displacement bike and work up? Or right in on a bigger displacement, and learn it?
Oh I see, I thought you meant track-only. Yeah that looks to be a very small track, no decent straightaways pretty much means no need for a big bike. A 600cc would be plenty for that track. Most people start on 600s, and I've heard the SV650 is a very popular track starter bike. Some even go for the 250s to start with. Personally I started with my 1198 (on the track that is), because that's my only bike. I'm taking it really easy and learning slow. I'm still getting past by 600s quite a bit, but oh well, I'm having fun. Ducati's are just fun as hell to ride in my opinion, and the sound of that engine at over 9000 rpm is amazing!
 
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