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Discussion Starter #1
After deciding between a scrambler and a monster I think i prefer the Monster. At the dealership they had the 821 stripe which i initially liked a lot but they also had a 1100 Evo. I think i prefer the looks of the Evo and the sound too being air cooled. I like the 821 due to power modes and adjustable seat. The 1100 evo is a bit cheaper but forgetting the money which would you choose and why?
 

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My vote is for the 1100 EVO, particularly for the air cooled engine.
The 821 is an entry level bike and probably trimmed out as such.
 

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I like the look of the 1100 Evo over the 821. The single sideded swing-arm, the overall look. The EVO is very "classic" Monster, air cooled engine. The 821 has the newer water cooled motor that puts out more horsepower. I think if you were considering the M1200s vs. 1100 EVO that would be a little more difficult.

I'd go for the EVO, knowing that the air cooled engine will require more frequent service intervals compared to the 821. But I'd also consider the number of available upgrades if you so choose to do… Also the EVO has more bells and whistles.

I recently rode with the local Ducati Club here in Colorado and a guy had an EVO. On the tight twisty bits, his EVO was every bit as quick as my 1200s...
 

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I'd actually go for the Monster 1100s. Still get the dry clutch and adjustable Ohlins suspension, and you can find them for cheaper than the 1100 Evo sometimes. I'd probably take the 1200s over the 1100s (huge price difference notwithstanding), but I would definitely choose the 1100 over the 821.
 

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I'd actually go for the Monster 1100s. Still get the dry clutch and adjustable Ohlins suspension, and you can find them for cheaper than the 1100 Evo sometimes. I'd probably take the 1200s over the 1100s (huge price difference notwithstanding), but I would definitely choose the 1100 over the 821.
I second this. If you're going to go the "classic" route then at least get one with a real Ducati clutch - nothing beats strangers coming up to you and asking why your bike sounds like someone shaking a bag of spanners! You won't miss traction control with that amount of power, and honestly unless you ride in the wet a lot and want more of a safety net ABS won't be missed either. The 1100s also gets its exhaust squared away under the seat, which IMO looks way tidier and shows off the single sided swing arm better (although it has to be said the stock exhaust looks shite). Pillion riders are apparently not so happy with that arrangement though, the butt gets a little warm!

But honestly the 1200 is $1500 more than the stripe and you get soooooo much more for your money. Do not underestimate the extra servicing costs if you think the 1100 is the cheaper option either - over time you will be (unpleasantly) surprised.

Another thing to consider is that the 1100EVO is pretty uncomfortable to ride, and given the lower bars the 1100s is even worse. The EVO has a smaller tank than the 1100s even, so if you ever want to ride more than 90 miles before the fuel warning light comes on probably look to the Stripe. I guess Ducati figured people's wrists would give out before the fuel did on the 1100 series! People are usually happy to make concessions to comfort if the performance is there, but it absolutely is not there on the 1100 and honestly it only took six months into my 3 year EVO ownership before I was asking myself what the point of the pain was without the power to go with it. So if you care about comfort at all then look at the Stripe.

Also be wary of the air-heads on this forum who think the 1100, particularly the EVO, represents the pinnacle of motorcycle performance - it really, really doesn't and the lack of power might bother you after living with it for a year or two. Since you were cross shopping the Scrambler though, it may well not bother you at all. Also the 1100 can in no way keep up with a 1200 on twisties, straights, loops, rainbows, or anywhere else - and anybody who claims it can shouldn't be trusted :)
 

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Also be wary of the air-heads on this forum who think the 1100, particularly the EVO, represents the pinnacle of motorcycle performance - it really, really doesn't and the lack of power might bother you after living with it for a year or two. Since you were cross shopping the Scrambler though, it may well not bother you at all. Also the 1100 can in no way keep up with a 1200 on twisties, straights, loops, rainbows, or anywhere else - and anybody who claims it can shouldn't be trusted :)
Mean Mister Mustard sleeps in the park
Shaves in the dark trying to save paper
Sleeps in a hole in the road
Saving up to buy some clothes
Keeps a ten-bob note up his nose
Such a mean old man
Such a mean old man

His sister Pam works in a shop
She never stops, she's a go-getter
Takes him out to look at the queen
Only place that he's ever been
Always shouts out something obscene
Such a dirty old man
Dirty old man


Mean Mr. Mustard, it is impossible to resist trolling you.

As more level-headed people have noted, the airhead and wethead Monsters are really two different classes of bikes. It's not really a matter of performance, since a truly talented rider on a Ninja 250 could leave Mean Mr. Mustard in the dust on a tight twisty road. My solution to the ergo issue was to put on a Rizoma bar and risers. Problem solved.

Both the old and new Monsters are fun rides. I haven't ridden the new bikes, but I think I have a good idea of their relative strengths and weaknesses. I've also ridden the new Hyper and prefer the 1100 motor for its grunt. Anyway, choose the 1100 Evo for a stronger focus on sport and simplicity; choose the 821 for higher tech and more comfort/utility riding in the city and touring.

And don't listen to anyone who tells you the Monster 1100 isn't capable of going fast. It's plenty fast enough to kill you, if you're into that kind of thing.

-Henry
 

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Here is a much longer reply. Maybe more than you want to read, but, hey, it's not like this forum couldn't use some traffic.

First, a funny story. Last week, my son called me at work and told me a woman he didn't know showed up at the front door asking if his dad would be willing to help. It turns out she had crashed her Vespa and hurt her arm and needed someone to ride it home for her from the middle of town. She knew I was a motorcyclist because she had seen my bikes in the garage. Well, I was a bit skeptical, but she turned out to be a nice woman and I did end up riding her scooter. Here I am, on the Vespa:



It was a terrifying experience, riding that thing! Scooters ought to be outlawed because they are dangerous!

Anyway (there is a point to this), I also asked her to take a picture of me on my R1100S:



I've put about 4,000 miles on the R11S this season. As you can see, it has a moderately forward-canted riding position.

In contrast, here is a picture of me on my Monster:



I don't know if you can tell, but the riding position on the Monster is much more laid-back than on the R1100S. So much so, in fact, that when I get off the BMW and onto the Ducati, I feel completely relaxed and almost weightless with my arms on the bars. It's really all about learning to carry the weight of your torso using your leg, stomach, and back muscles.

Here is a good picture of my Rizoma bar setup. You can see it's not a radical departure from the stock bars, but it made a big difference. The only downside is I had to give up a bit of steering range to keep the controls from hitting the tank covers.



I haven't ridden the Monster that much this season because the R1100S and my BMW airhead are much better in traffic jams. A picture of my airhead, FWIW:



Lovely bike. But you know what? Except for the stiff suspension and hard seat, the Monster is actually more comfortable.

Here's why you might want to buy an 1100 Evo: It's very light. It has quick, easy steering. It is very confidence-inspiring in the turns. The motor is torquey and plenty powerful, but not so powerful that it will scare you or tear your arms off. The brakes are great. The bike is smooth, but has enough shakes, rattles, and vibes to let you know you're riding a living, breathing motorcycle. And it's just a blast to ride on a curvy road. It is the last of a legendary breed.

Here's why you might NOT want to buy an 1100 Evo: The thing is a pain in the ass in stop-and-go traffic. Your right inner thigh burns when you're stopped at a light. Depending on the gas you're running, the engine's state of tune, and the phases of the moon, the low-end fueling can give you a bad case of the surges. The rear spring rates are totally wrong and the shock is junk. When you open the throttle all the way, it does NOT scare you shitless.

A few things I have done to improve my Monster: 1) Put a 42 tooth sprocket on the back; 2) Bought a G2 Throttle Tamer; 3) Run 89 octane instead of premium; 4) Closed up the air bypass screws on both throttle bodies. These changes have largely ameliorated the surging problem, or made it less bothersome anyway. Later I plan to put on a better rear shock.

The Throttle Tamer is cool. It took some getting used to, but now I like it a lot. It has very little friction compared to the stock tube. it doesn't make the engine run better, but reduces the amount of work you need to do to cope with the surge.

I came close to selling my Monster this spring, and I may still one day. But I'm sure I'll regret it when I do. It's a very cool bike that is no longer sold and has absolutely no need to prove anything to anybody. If it appeals to you, buy it. If not, buy something else. It's really that simple.

-Henry
 

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Off subject

Sorry to post off subject but...


It was a terrifying experience, riding that thing! Scooters ought to be outlawed because they are dangerous.
Don't hate the scooters, they are great for getting around in town. The LX you were riding is a small frame and probably underpowered (150) or severely underpowered (50). A large frame 250/300 is a lot of fun.
 

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This response is laughable. I almost have no response.. The 1100 is a great bike. Just like every modern Ducati, it handles great.

I invite anyone who thinks the 1100 EVO is under-powered or "can't handle" the twisties to come out and ride with the Denver Ducati club in some real mountain roads and just see how well it performs…

"Anyone that says otherwise is a troll and can't be trusted" :wink2:


I second this. If you're going to go the "classic" route then at least get one with a real Ducati clutch - nothing beats strangers coming up to you and asking why your bike sounds like someone shaking a bag of spanners! You won't miss traction control with that amount of power, and honestly unless you ride in the wet a lot and want more of a safety net ABS won't be missed either. The 1100s also gets its exhaust squared away under the seat, which IMO looks way tidier and shows off the single sided swing arm better (although it has to be said the stock exhaust looks shite). Pillion riders are apparently not so happy with that arrangement though, the butt gets a little warm!

But honestly the 1200 is $1500 more than the stripe and you get soooooo much more for your money. Do not underestimate the extra servicing costs if you think the 1100 is the cheaper option either - over time you will be (unpleasantly) surprised.

Another thing to consider is that the 1100EVO is pretty uncomfortable to ride, and given the lower bars the 1100s is even worse. The EVO has a smaller tank than the 1100s even, so if you ever want to ride more than 90 miles before the fuel warning light comes on probably look to the Stripe. I guess Ducati figured people's wrists would give out before the fuel did on the 1100 series! People are usually happy to make concessions to comfort if the performance is there, but it absolutely is not there on the 1100 and honestly it only took six months into my 3 year EVO ownership before I was asking myself what the point of the pain was without the power to go with it. So if you care about comfort at all then look at the Stripe.

Also be wary of the air-heads on this forum who think the 1100, particularly the EVO, represents the pinnacle of motorcycle performance - it really, really doesn't and the lack of power might bother you after living with it for a year or two. Since you were cross shopping the Scrambler though, it may well not bother you at all. Also the 1100 can in no way keep up with a 1200 on twisties, straights, loops, rainbows, or anywhere else - and anybody who claims it can shouldn't be trusted :)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks guys for taking the time to write so much information for me. I was wondering if any of you monster owners rode the scrambler and how it felt compared? Was the power a let down or did he weight make up for it?
 

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I second this. If you're going to go the "classic" route then at least get one with a real Ducati clutch - nothing beats strangers coming up to you and asking why your bike sounds like someone shaking a bag of spanners! You won't miss traction control with that amount of power, and honestly unless you ride in the wet a lot and want more of a safety net ABS won't be missed either. The 1100s also gets its exhaust squared away under the seat, which IMO looks way tidier and shows off the single sided swing arm better (although it has to be said the stock exhaust looks shite). Pillion riders are apparently not so happy with that arrangement though, the butt gets a little warm!

But honestly the 1200 is $1500 more than the stripe and you get soooooo much more for your money. Do not underestimate the extra servicing costs if you think the 1100 is the cheaper option either - over time you will be (unpleasantly) surprised.

Another thing to consider is that the 1100EVO is pretty uncomfortable to ride, and given the lower bars the 1100s is even worse. The EVO has a smaller tank than the 1100s even, so if you ever want to ride more than 90 miles before the fuel warning light comes on probably look to the Stripe. I guess Ducati figured people's wrists would give out before the fuel did on the 1100 series! People are usually happy to make concessions to comfort if the performance is there, but it absolutely is not there on the 1100 and honestly it only took six months into my 3 year EVO ownership before I was asking myself what the point of the pain was without the power to go with it. So if you care about comfort at all then look at the Stripe.

Also be wary of the air-heads on this forum who think the 1100, particularly the EVO, represents the pinnacle of motorcycle performance - it really, really doesn't and the lack of power might bother you after living with it for a year or two. Since you were cross shopping the Scrambler though, it may well not bother you at all. Also the 1100 can in no way keep up with a 1200 on twisties, straights, loops, rainbows, or anywhere else - and anybody who claims it can shouldn't be trusted :)
I thought the 821 was pretty uncomfortable and it felt buzzy to me and you have to rev the piss out of it to get it to go. I felt like my legs were folded up like a pretzel on it and both legs were cramping up after 15-20 minutes in the saddle. I didn't like it at all but then I've been riding a Multistrada 1200 S for the past 8 months and 3,500 miles (my Multistrada has the liquid-cooled 1198 Testastretta motor, lest anyone accuse me of being an air-head). No way would I own an 821 and it didn't seem any faster than my 1100 EVO was.

The EVO does have a pitifully small fuel tank and I have had to stop and fill up more than twice on a single ride. This was a major complaint of mine of this bike. Every 100 miles or so that fuel light would blaze and if you ignore it you could expect to be out of fuel within 20 miles. I never ran out but came close a few times. Comfort on longer rides was always an issue but not because of my wrists. For me it was my arse. Anything over 3 hours or so and I was itching to get off that bike.

Ride both and see which one you prefer. I would also recommend you give the 848 Streetfighter a look. I loved that bike and thought it was better than any of the Monsters I've owned or ridden. Although, the 2010 Monster 1100 S was also pretty good.

I haven't ridden the Scrambler. That bike really doesn't appeal to me at all quite frankly. I have ridden the Monster 796 though and it is very easy to ride. Would make a great city bike or commuter.
 

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This response is laughable. I almost have no response.. The 1100 is a great bike. Just like every modern Ducati, it handles great.

I invite anyone who thinks the 1100 EVO is under-powered or "can't handle" the twisties to come out and ride with the Denver Ducati club in some real mountain roads and just see how well it performs…

"Anyone that says otherwise is a troll and can't be trusted" :wink2:
LOL here we go again - air heads getting their panties in a bunch and putting words into my mouth which I simply didn't say! Of course the 1100EVO can handle itself in the corners just fine, it's a Ducati. Period.

However, it is also VERY underpowered compared to modern bikes and it will get its ass handed to it by a comparable rider on a more powerful machine - that's just basic physics and you can clearly see the psychosis of some of the people here when they claim different. The Ducati air cooled motor is a nice, torquey mill but it's also totally obsolete and a PITA to service. The 1200s has more torque AND nearly 50% more horse power, and that is on the LOW end of nakeds in the modern age. I am not just some armchair riding keyboard jockey like Opie48, who admits he hasn't even ridden the 1200 while boasting how much faster the 1100 is - I had an 1100EVO for 3 years, now I have had a 1200s for a year (I also had an M600 for 3+ years). I know the 1290 Duke will kerb stomp my 1200 and I am at peace with that, I don't feel the need to go to KTM forums and lie about how my bike "is better in the twisities", that's just weird and pathetic.

So anyway, once again I am offering some honest advice to a potential buyer and being screamed at by the resident OCD types - what fun! It certainly engenders good debate when people make personal attacks like that. What's even weirder is I actually recommended the 1100s over the water cooled 821 and STILL got attacked by the self imposed king of the board. But then it's obvious he doesn't even read what I say, just froths and foams over his keyboard because I don't follow the party line about him being the world's best rider and showing up sportbikes on his 1100EVO every day!

If you don't care about power (or range, or service intervals), get the 1100s and raise the bars - it's a nice bike. If you really don't care about power and want a proper classic I'd go for an M900 myself, though finding a mint one might be hard now.
 

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Mean Mister Mustard sleeps in the park
Shaves in the dark trying to save paper
Sleeps in a hole in the road
Saving up to buy some clothes
Keeps a ten-bob note up his nose
Such a mean old man
Such a mean old man

His sister Pam works in a shop
She never stops, she's a go-getter
Takes him out to look at the queen
Only place that he's ever been
Always shouts out something obscene
Such a dirty old man
Dirty old man


Mean Mr. Mustard, it is impossible to resist trolling you.

As more level-headed people have noted, the airhead and wethead Monsters are really two different classes of bikes. It's not really a matter of performance, since a truly talented rider on a Ninja 250 could leave Mean Mr. Mustard in the dust on a tight twisty road. My solution to the ergo issue was to put on a Rizoma bar and risers. Problem solved.

Both the old and new Monsters are fun rides. I haven't ridden the new bikes, but I think I have a good idea of their relative strengths and weaknesses. I've also ridden the new Hyper and prefer the 1100 motor for its grunt. Anyway, choose the 1100 Evo for a stronger focus on sport and simplicity; choose the 821 for higher tech and more comfort/utility riding in the city and touring.

And don't listen to anyone who tells you the Monster 1100 isn't capable of going fast. It's plenty fast enough to kill you, if you're into that kind of thing.

-Henry
I actually thought about you the other day Opie, I did a KTM open day to try out the RC390 and we all went out in a big supervised group of mixed bikes. Out of twelve people (with an average age into the forties) I was amazed how many old farts there were who couldn't even turn their blinkers off after a turn. One idiot on the 1290 Duke kept riding right up to my back wheel, totally unable to control the power of the bike and wholly unsafe on the road. My first and last group ride with people I don't know, but I did think of you Opie, because afterwards he was saying how fast he is in the twisties too!
 

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Sorry to post off subject but...

Don't hate the scooters, they are great for getting around in town. The LX you were riding is a small frame and probably underpowered (150) or severely underpowered (50). A large frame 250/300 is a lot of fun.
In my experience, the moderators here are tough on off-topic posts. And I respect that. On the other hand, allowing the subject to wander from time to time, IMHO, can make a forum more fun and maybe encourage more participation, which this forum desperately needs.

I'll take my chances, begging the moderator's pardon, and give my quick impressions of the Vespa. It must have been a 50cc model because it seemed to have a terminal velocity of about 35 MPH. That was the main problem -- I felt like a sitting duck with absolutely no acceleration. The brakes were OK for what they were, once I got over the tendency to pull hard on the left lever when I came to a stop :surprise:. Handling was very quick but no more so than my bicycle. So overall I agree with you, it's not so much the scooter format that's a problem, but the lack of power when mixing up with real traffic.

The other concern I have, after looking at the Vespa website, is that these things are marketed, IMHO, as a "safer" version of a motorcycle. There are all of these pictures of young people riding two up in sweaters and skirts, etc., with nothing more than an open-faced helmet for protection. It seems to me (and my new neighbor friend is an example -- she crashed for no apparent reason in a parking lot) that people buy these things thinking no rider training is needed. And that is worrisome. I sent her links to the MSF and strongly encouraged her to take the BRC.

-Henry
 

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I actually thought about you the other day Opie, I did a KTM open day to try out the RC390 and we all went out in a big supervised group of mixed bikes. Out of twelve people (with an average age into the forties) I was amazed how many old farts there were who couldn't even turn their blinkers off after a turn. One idiot on the 1290 Duke kept riding right up to my back wheel, totally unable to control the power of the bike and wholly unsafe on the road. My first and last group ride with people I don't know, but I did think of you Opie, because afterwards he was saying how fast he is in the twisties too!
Hi, MMM. I'm sixteen years older than you. Though I can definitely say my body and brain are worse for wear, overall I feel much like the same person I was in my twenties -- but a lot wiser and more experienced. I can't say I have a problem forgetting to turn off my turn signals. And I never ride with other people because I prefer to go at my own pace. For me, riding is a very personal experience that I do for my own pleasure, NOT to impress other people.

I don't know where you got the idea that I -- or anyone else -- was trying to say the 1100 Evo is a faster, higher performance machine than the 1200. If you read all the posts on the subject in this and related threads, there's just nothing there to support your complaint. People have been saying, and quite justifiably so, that the 1100 Evo is a fine sporting machine, capable of going very fast on the right roads, and of delivering a hell of a lot of satisfaction. I just don't see what your problem is.

I apologize for posting the lyrics to "Mean Mr. Mustard." I'm sure the song is what you had in mind when you picked your screen name and it really does seem to fit...

FWIW, I've never been on the track, and I absolutely DO NOT try to ride ten-tenths on the street. Playing wannabe racer on the street is a sure path to worlds of pain. I honestly believe that in real-world riding conditions it's the rider, much more so than the bike, that determines how fast you get from point A to B. If anything, your experience on your recent group ride proves that point.

I have been arguing with people on the internet (and its precursors) since you were in diapers. Word of advice: There is an art to trolling, and you are hopelessly outclassed here.

Edit: Hi again, MMM. You and I must have been typing our last replies at the same time. To respond to your most recent comments, well, if you'll pardon me for saying so, your attitude and perceptions are just very strange. I'm quite sure I never bragged about how fast a rider I am, nor did I claim the 1100 Evo is faster than the newer Monsters. In fact, I've gone to great lengths to try to describe the strengths and weaknesses of the 1100 Evo.

If you want to buy the fastest, baddest naked street fighter, buy an SD1290R, or an S1000R. Otherwise, understand that there is more to enjoying a motorcycle than absolute power or lap times. It's just that simple.

WRT being the "king of the board," this is the second time you've said that, and I already responded. But I want to say, that's just silly. I think you're just frustrated because your point of view isn't getting much traction or sympathy from other readers. Seriously, we know you aren't that fond of the 1100 Evo and prefer the newest and the oldest Monsters. That's OK. Your preference is fine and perfectly justifiable. Just lose the attitude, dude.

-Henry
 

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I actually thought about you the other day Opie, I did a KTM open day to try out the RC390 and we all went out in a big supervised group of mixed bikes. Out of twelve people (with an average age into the forties) I was amazed how many old farts there were who couldn't even turn their blinkers off after a turn. One idiot on the 1290 Duke kept riding right up to my back wheel, totally unable to control the power of the bike and wholly unsafe on the road. My first and last group ride with people I don't know, but I did think of you Opie, because afterwards he was saying how fast he is in the twisties too!
Meh, we all do this from time to time.
 

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I actually thought about you the other day Opie, I did a KTM open day to try out the RC390 and we all went out in a big supervised group of mixed bikes. Out of twelve people (with an average age into the forties) I was amazed how many old farts there were who couldn't even turn their blinkers off after a turn. One idiot on the 1290 Duke kept riding right up to my back wheel, totally unable to control the power of the bike and wholly unsafe on the road. My first and last group ride with people I don't know, but I did think of you Opie, because afterwards he was saying how fast he is in the twisties too!
It just occurred to me that the guy was probably trying to get MMM to move out of the way so he could pass him.

Meh, we all do this from time to time.
Most likely explanation is they were distracted because they were focusing on riding unfamiliar bikes.

-Henry
 

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It just occurred to me that the guy was probably trying to get MMM to move out of the way so he could pass him.

-Henry
I was thinking the same thing actually. :D

I'm also wondering why if the M1200 is so good then why does it do so poorly in the motorcycle rag comparos? It always rates somewhere in the middle of the pack. I haven't ridden the M1200 but I have ridden the M821 and was thoroughly unimpressed by it. Seems like the KTM 1290 Super Duke and the BMW S1000R are the best of the naked bikes. I predict a rethink of the current Monster in a year or two. This one just seems to come up short.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Another question, If i went for the 1100evo as I'm leaning that way at the moment. Which would hold value better. 1100evo or the Anniversary edition? (could this become a classic bike)
 
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