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Discussion Starter #1
4 Mode Throttle… a Con?

Well no one is telling me I’m wrong, or ‘go buy a Honda’ any more, so I guess I need a new post!

First…how I ride. I commute every day, in Kuala Lumpur. A typical big hot sticky (and often wet) Asian jammed up city. I do long trips for work. Usually a mixture of super two and three lane highway…twisting over the local mountains…..then long ‘blast it’ straight bits. Yes I like going fast…so 160kph + on the nice bends….and 230 is the max it likes to do with panniers on. It will cruise all day at 200, but does drink a lot at that speed. (We have very ‘bike friendly’ police here!) I go out with a group most weekends…a mixture a rough rural forest roads…dangerous slow twisties, and we also include some fast ‘canyon style’ sections when we can. The only off-road is on pretty good tracks…so yes…it’s ‘off-road’ but by no means ‘enduro’. I have had the bike three months and coming up to 10,000km. So I now feel more ‘qualified’ to comment than I did when I started on this bike. (Not that that stopped me…before someone else says it!)

So this one is about the four modes…and only in respect of the fuel maps and the (not really) ‘fly by wire’ throttle.

I think we are (nearly) all agreed now that there are NOT different maps for each mode, nor for each gear, (some ‘trim’ tabs, yes). So the ONLY difference in the modes so far as the ECU/maps and throttle is the ‘throttle mapping’ i.e. the relationship between how much you twist the twistgrip and the throttle opening / power delivery. That’s it.

This relationship has been an issue for ever and some old carb’s on bikes and cars used to have ingenious mechanical and hydro-mechanical systems of cams and rods and slipping clutches and springs…and accelerator pumps…and all sorts, to give the ‘linear’ (appearance) of power delivery with twist grip / pedal operation.

Now much I’d love to bore everyone with the development of carburettors and totally mechanical fuel injection….through to ‘EFI’ (Electronic Fuel Injection) to what we have now, ‘computer controlled’ fuel injection…with the ability of a ‘fly by wire’ twist grip input able to open the throttle in any which way we may desire.

So…Urban. Caps the power at 100hp so all of the twist grip motion (lets call it 90 degrees, I have no idea) is ‘spread’ over only 100 horses rather than (say) 150…so we get a ‘softer’ response. Touring. You get the full 150….quite gentle at the beginning….then sort of slow to medium through the middle, with a nice bit of ‘grunt’ to come on the last 30 degrees of twist. Sport. Other way round…you get half the power (you know what I mean…I’m sure someone will tell me it’s not half), in the first 20 degrees of twist….then pretty sedentary all the way up. Which is why several reviewers said “put it in sports mode and all hell brakes loose”. (It doesn’t really…but we won’t go into ‘reviewers’).

Now my point is, what a total and complete waste of time! Given a good and fairly linear twist grip to throttle response…and given you can open the throttle from closed to open in what? Quarter second?....then what on earth is wrong with the very clever human hand, eye, brain, backside closed-loop system simply controlling how YOU want to accelerate? So thinking that you get some wham bang special ‘umph’ in Sports mode is not true. If you wacked the throttle open in Touring…same!!

Now it’s not as if we have 500 horses to handle here. If you can’t control this beast in town in ‘Touring’ mode then I’d suggest you should go back to a 500cc something. There is totally no need for an Urban mode and thank you…even less need to cap it at 100 horses. The difference between Sport and Touring is there…but really…for what?? Your brain, hand, arse can (normally) learn the response of the throttle on your car, bike, boat or plane…and ‘manage’ it as you want…BUT…and here’s another rub. If you keep swapping modes…you NEVER get to know (instinctively) the ‘law’ between your hand and the power delivery, because you keep changing it!!

So….the motion is: “This house believes that ‘variable throttle mapping’ is now done…because it can be done, not because it’s needed, and is no use to anyone, and may even have detrimental effects on the rider / machine output”.

Now guys…lots of you may ‘like’ it…and yep…it’s a fun gimmick…and we all like fun gimmicks…but does it really give us anything over and above what a nice (I’ll call it linear..but I’ll get picked up on that) smooth twist-grip to power output ‘law’ gives us? I’d say not.

Food for thought…sorry, I was getting a bit bored!! Nick
 

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I'm sorry, could you repeat that?

To be honest I like the different settings and utilize them regularly. Are they needed...well, no...but is ABS needed..etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
ah well yes...ABS.
Lots on that already.
I love the guys who say it makes us less safe because we ride with less caution. I wonder if these are the sons of people 30 years ago who said wearing seat belts made us less safe...for the same reason? (That being, seat belts were accused of making people drive with less care becasue they felt more secure).

Now, DTC, I need to understand that more before I really know if thats going to save me! (Like it kicks in when I aquaplane...and I'd always 'done nothing' when aquaplaning....other than pray)....and when I take off and go flying....its flashing...so am I better landing with no power? I'm not sure).
 

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Nothing replaces good rider throttle control, but not sure we should separate the mapping from DTC. To take the extremes Urban has DTC on 6, Enduro on 2. Maybe the point is that if you need/want DTC on 6 (because of road conditions) then 100hp makes sense.

1-up I only ride in Sport and it is completely comfortable for me on everything but fire roads (where I switch to Enduro). 2-up I prefer Touring though, and appreciated the lazier throttle. Never use Urban but might in the rain (or will custom map it for high DTC and full power).
 

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You don't know the beauty of the DTC because you don't realize it is working. The DTC automatically turns off when you disconnect the battery. I found this when I installed my GPS. I went for a ride with the DTC off and noticed a difference. Although I turned the DTC back on, it is a thrill to know the power is there if wanted.


ah well yes...ABS.
Lots on that already.
I love the guys who say it makes us less safe because we ride with less caution. I wonder if these are the sons of people 30 years ago who said wearing seat belts made us less safe...for the same reason? (That being, seat belts were accused of making people drive with less care becasue they felt more secure).

Now, DTC, I need to understand that more before I really know if thats going to save me! (Like it kicks in when I aquaplane...and I'd always 'done nothing' when aquaplaning....other than pray)....and when I take off and go flying....its flashing...so am I better landing with no power? I'm not sure).
 

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YOU want to accelerate? So thinking that you get some wham bang special ‘umph’ in Sports mode is not true. If you wacked the throttle open in Touring…same!!
When I whack the throttle open it sort of dies then decides to take off. I just figured that's it's little computer brain taking a moment to think. If so and it's not just my bike I miss the old fashioned carbs. Not a big deal though, I've learned to roll the throttle on.

I partially brought the bike for ABS and the dial down horsepower.

ABS. Emergency stop on a road surface you've not been reading and ABS is the only way to go IMO. I'm not primed to hit the brakes exactly right after hours in the saddle. I find the ABS very reassuring. Back brake is a different story, you can hit that any old time and it doesn't seem to do very much. Back doesn't seem to need ABS.

4 modes.

I thought the 100hp mode would keep me more relaxed and sedate.... Turns out I just use sport and touring. Off road it will be nice to have the enduro mode and ABS definitely OFF.

Nice to read your post and to meet another bored over thinker :)
 

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Quite honestly, I've spent my whole life riding and developing my sense of throttle control. I never felt I needed different maps riding on the street. In the end, I rarely ever switch my mode from sport. I find I am automatically smoother when I need, Rain, slippery conditions, etc. But I see the usefulness in this for riders who are newer or less experienced...Not saying I am some superstar, but I have ridden/raced dirt and street bikes since I was about 5years old and ride virtually every day in all kinds of conditions. I see many riders who are reentering riding or rode very little when they were young and now have enough $ to buy and ride anything they want. It can be a steep learning curve...What reactions come from an experienced rider verses a less experienced rider in an emergency situation is what I think really separates us....This is where I think these 4 riding modes become most useful. By just taking the edge off for someone who has not yet had throttle control engrained in their mind so their reaction is the proper one, (in my case by misjudging and crashing or scaring the bejezzus out of myself when I was much younger, and on less powerful bikes). I guess it makes the bike a bit more forgiving for all of us, but even more so for the less experienced rider.
I initially felt the same about traction control. Newer riders that have not developed ”feel” for the bike or learned where the limit is would benefit from it, and I still believe that to be true. Where I changed my mind is while I had spent a lifetime developing my “feel” for the contact patch and being smooth, so what do I need it for? I am no longer a young kid with something to prove, I now know I was never as fast as I was in my mind. I still enjoy riding very hard and have come to trust that the traction control does step in when I get a little too big for my britches and have her sliding a bit more than I should…..I’m sure I’ve got her completely in hand , but that wee red light is telling me maybe I misjudged and I could have binned it back there had the electronics not stepped in:eek:. I guess I’ll never know if the bike was right or if I was right. But now I appreciate and have come to lean on the traction control a bit. I guess I like knowing I have that bit of a safety blanket.
Well that’s my take on it anyway, and we know what they say about opinions????
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Trail Bandit. You say

"When I whack the throttle open it sort of dies then decides to take off. I just figured that's it's little computer brain taking a moment to think. If so and it's not just my bike I miss the old fashioned carbs. Not a big deal though, I've learned to roll the throttle on."

It shouldn't do that. I have had heaps of issues with the fueling on this bike but now, open it, and it goes. If you have any sort fo really marked hesitation, get ti looked at. (The problem always is...who do you take it to to look at it??)

King Volcano. You sure should know when the DTC is working as the 'disco lights' come on. That's quite 'attention getting'...but if the DTC is chopping in...maybe your attention is elsewhere!!!
 

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What about us who start the day on near fridgid cold tires on wet Brine covered roads, That is when I'll use urban .Going round a corner first thing in the morning with Possible icy /slippery conditions ,
That is when urban is NICE to use, with the subdued HP ...
Or when dry for a long time then the first bit of rain makes the oil/crap covered roads less than perfect..
The bike was made for LOTS of different climates and riding styles...

I like to think that I am PROGRAMMED to use brakes and MAYBE am sort of a skilled braker , with a delicate feel for what is happening. (Some are just more natural at things, some can throw a baseball and some can't)

HENCE the name MULTI...
I get it, put it in whatever mode suits you and have a ball....
Fine tune the settings or get used to the settings provided...
Some may be good at twisting the throttle and some may be better at braking or whatever...

Maybe a 1199 and a billion $$$ worth of mods , will keep your inquisitive mind active:D:D:D

To each his/her own, I can nit pick about anything...if you dig deep enuff...

Not bashing you at all , really ...
Food for thought...
We could all live without all the marketing HOOEY...
Talk about a broken promise ENDURO Mode, that takes the cake...
Near impossible to ride in MUD , REAL MUD, Snotty slippery clay roads . or soft sand...

Still a great bike when you get used to it and its limitations....

I would not trade it for ANY other bike ....
 

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I don't know if you are commenting or insulting.

Trail Bandit. You say

King Volcano. You sure should know when the DTC is working as the 'disco lights' come on. That's quite 'attention getting'...but if the DTC is chopping in...maybe your attention is elsewhere!!!
 

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I usually never look at the dash , cept for speed.
or when coming to a stop and look for neutral letter or number or light...:)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
King Volcano. How on earth did my reply seem insulting? I just find the 'flashing' DTC display, (which someone else christened 'disco lights') hard to miss. When the DTC 'cuts in'...I notice it...it does not seem to me to be a background function. When I said 'your attention may be elsewhere I was simply meaning that if you were 'slipping and sliding', sure, you may well not see the light. No intention whatsoever to be insulting.
 

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Now my point is, what a total and complete waste of time! Given a good and fairly linear twist grip to throttle response…and given you can open the throttle from closed to open in what? Quarter second?....then what on earth is wrong with the very clever human hand, eye, brain, backside closed-loop system simply controlling how YOU want to accelerate? So thinking that you get some wham bang special ‘umph’ in Sports mode is not true. If you wacked the throttle open in Touring…same!!
My guess is that you really don't sport ride, per se. There is a big difference between the Touring mode and the Sport mode on this bike and they definately have value to someone who actually uses the bike in those two, very different manners. I find Sport mode to be too jumpy around town and when cruising on the freeway, but just right when I want to ride the bike hard in the hills. When you are sport riding aggressively, you do not want a long throttle turn.

Sure they could have just given us one mode, 150hp and split the difference between the two throttle response set ups, but they chose instead to offer a 'feature' of multiple modes that would afford better performance relative to each riding condition.
 

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I went canyon riding with friends last weekend, all I can say is thank god for ABS and DTC...

First, right after a blind right corner, two cars were just stopped to turn left, I had other traffic on the right lane, those ABS brake worked...man it was close...

Second, On one of the right corners, as I was accreting out of a corner, a bump on the road got the front wheel off the ground, I saw the Red ring on the dash, DTC...got the front wheel down...Thank you MTS1200...

All this works for me...Lazy rider :)
 

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Trail Bandit. You say

"When I whack the throttle open it sort of dies then decides to take off. I just figured that's it's little computer brain taking a moment to think. If so and it's not just my bike I miss the old fashioned carbs. Not a big deal though, I've learned to roll the throttle on."

It shouldn't do that. I have had heaps of issues with the fueling on this bike but now, open it, and it goes. If you have any sort fo really marked hesitation, get ti looked at. (The problem always is...who do you take it to to look at it??)
I've just read that label on the tank that says not to fill the tank completely or it screws it up resulting in hard starting and hesitation. Only read it because I wa going to peal it off.

I'll have to hunt around for threads on this. Don't think I've done it but I wasn't too fussed on trips and wanted it full to compare mpg on tour.
 

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Opinions vary.

I use Urban every time I ride. I live in an area with a great contrast of roads. I spend most time in Sport and the bike feels just right for those speeds and nice fast forest corners. But often to jump from one of these roads to another I have to take small two lane and some sections that are one lane roads with virtually all blind corners.

These roads are paved but very pot holed and lumpy. They are very steep, blind and intermittently shaded with water spots. There is no safe zone, if you screw up you either eat a mountainside a redwood tree, slide down a cliff bouncing off redwood trees or slide under an oncoming car. These roads are all 40mph and under but even with my modest skills I can drag my toes through most of them so they are quite fun.

I use Urban because with no actual dirt the bike moves around too much in Enduro, and again, no margin for screw ups. I can drag toes and parts of the bike and rarely can use all the throttle even at 100hp. I left it in Sport once because I was being lazy and it went from a fun romp to a twitchy, lunging frightening mess. This was the same Sport setting I was just having the time of my life with on the faster roads.

So for me it's all Sport and Urban. I rarely freeway cruise and never for more than an hour so don't even bother with Touring. I never off road so no use for Enduro either.

But that's the whole great thing about this bike. For different riders they will live in different modes that compliment their riding style and areas. It's nice to have the choice to find the ones that suits you instead of being stuck with the one that some guy who rides nothing like me with a different skill level in a different place thought was 'perfect'. One mans meat is another mans poison.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Archimedio. You are perhaps correct that I don't use Spprts Mode 'per-se'. I would call myself a 'fast tourer'...no chicken strips left, but equally no parts 'dragging' on the bends (but I really should keep my toes tucked in!)

From many replies here and on other formum it seems (most) people like the DTC and ABS as much (more?) than the modes. Also seems a fair number think the reduction to 100 hp in Urban has a lot of merit.

Thnaks everyone for the comments.
 

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Quite honestly, I've spent my whole life riding and developing my sense of throttle control. I never felt I needed different maps riding on the street. In the end, I rarely ever switch my mode from sport. I find I am automatically smoother when I need, Rain, slippery conditions, etc. But I see the usefulness in this for riders who are newer or less experienced...Not saying I am some superstar, but I have ridden/raced dirt and street bikes since I was about 5years old and ride virtually every day in all kinds of conditions. I see many riders who are reentering riding or rode very little when they were young and now have enough $ to buy and ride anything they want. It can be a steep learning curve...What reactions come from an experienced rider verses a less experienced rider in an emergency situation is what I think really separates us....This is where I think these 4 riding modes become most useful. By just taking the edge off for someone who has not yet had throttle control engrained in their mind so their reaction is the proper one,
Guess with the different modes and whatnot, Ducati should have marketed the 1200 as a beginner's bike...:)
 

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I'm a bit of a gadget geek so for me the modes are a nice bonus.
In my short time with the bike I've put a couple two tree k on the bike & from what I've personally experienced the modes break down for me this way:

Sport is useful as the full on mode. But more than that it's quite practical in dealing with the mountain/hill riding. The direct control from the engine is very useful when going down long twisty grades because the engine breaking is so direct.

Touring mode is my majority mode. I like it because it's overall smooth & gives me the power I need when I need it. I actually prefer it most of the time in traffic precisely because it's a smoother roll on with the throttle. And of course on boring highway rides.

Urban mode is useful in crappy road city situations with a lot of start & stop traffic with an excessive pot hole environment. Then it's not so much about the power but the DTC and ABS with a better suspension setting. I found that out first hand riding around in San Francisco (in the flat areas) with the rather damaged road conditions there. Also great for rain. On the hills I immediately switch to sport for the up hill power & downhill control.

Enduro is good for what it says, anything of dirt gravel or off road. Worked great for me.

So I'm no expert, no technician. I'm experienced enough. Not gonna' say I'm the greatest nor the worst. I ride it pretty aggressively & feel how it likes to move and those different modes are fun & serve a great purpose for me.
Of course I assume that the experience is personal for everyone. That was just my two cents.

And of course I've personally renamed them,
Hooligan
Chill
Rain
Dirt
 
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