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Discussion Starter #1
I don't get it. I've read many a lot of posts here now and I can't understand why do so many people on this forum despise the liquid cooled 4valve / cylinder models?

?'s
1. What's so glorious about aircooled 2 valve Ducatis? Can someone please educate me?

2. What's so wrong with the better performing engines with over 30-50% more HP and similar torque for roughly the same weight as the 2 valve air cooled engines? Is the maintenance that much harder or more expensive?

FYI: My only bike (first) is the beguiled '02 Sport 900, which i love.


yavol
 

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you got this all wrong, we are one family. :cool:

people, who are pissing about either concept, just don't belong to it.

-> easy. :cool:
 

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We're in an election year. Maybe people just need collateral subjects to debate. :confused:

I just love motorcycles in general :cool:
 

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I own both - a 2000 996 and a 1997 900ss.

The 996 is the worst streetbike I've ever owned. Ergos mainly. The power is fun but on teh street, I spend more time slowing down than anything else. You have to be flying to make it feel like you're working the bike at all. I haven't got near the skills to push this bike to it's limit and it lets me know that each time I ride it.

When I pull off the fairing it seems stuffed with parts. Fuel injecting, water cooling, twice the number of valves/parts.

The Supersport makes a much better streetbike. To me it's a simpler bike. It's lmiits are nearer to mine. For "normal" use it just makes more sense to me.

That said, you'll notice I'm not selling my 996... That bike makes me happy just looking at it, and for occassional use it's great fun...
 

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two each his own

The popularity of the Monster range throughout the 90's says a lot about the engine "feel" and the ergonomic reality of streetbikes.
The racing success of the 4 valve engines says as much about going fast.
A Monster with a lc 4V engine? That says,"do what you like!"
Take a deep breath. Don't worry about haters. Buy a Sport Classic and a 848 (nobody needs a 1098, that's just ridiculous and wrong :rolleyes:). Then sell the one you like less. Keep your '92. Is it Red w/Silver? That was the only real color scheem ever! I'm shutting up now:abduct:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I own both - a 2000 996 and a 1997 900ss.

The 996 is the worst streetbike I've ever owned. Ergos mainly. The power is fun but on teh street, I spend more time slowing down than anything else. You have to be flying to make it feel like you're working the bike at all. I haven't got near the skills to push this bike to it's limit and it lets me know that each time I ride it.

When I pull off the fairing it seems stuffed with parts. Fuel injecting, water cooling, twice the number of valves/parts.

The Supersport makes a much better streetbike. To me it's a simpler bike. It's lmiits are nearer to mine. For "normal" use it just makes more sense to me.

That said, you'll notice I'm not selling my 996... That bike makes me happy just looking at it, and for occassional use it's great fun...

Ah, I see. So the the argument is that the superbikes aren't as usable on the street because of too much power and less friendly ergonomics.

Now I have to own both :D
 

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I don't get it....
1. What's so glorious about aircooled 2 valve Ducatis? Can someone please educate me?
You've forgotten the prime directive my son:

"Simplicity, carried to its ultimate extreme."
by: Doctor Taglioni when asked to expound on his attitude towards fundamental engineering design practice.

In practical terms, I believe most recent sporting motorcyles have achieved "escape velocity" for street use and over-engineering solutions to problems that don't exist just to spice up the marketing make no sense to me. Average and even well above average street riders cannot make use of the additional power, brakes and suspension.

Ergos matter, tractibility matters and the subjective visceral take away value (sound, looks) of the bike matters all of which make the SSs winners, at least until they bolted on EFI.

Having said all that, I'm hoping the recent market meltdown chases a lovely original condition '94 916 into my garage :)
 

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Ah, I see. So the the argument is that the superbikes aren't as usable on the street because of too much power and less friendly ergonomics.
then someone like me throws all that out the window and daily drives a 749 year round... in the last 9 and a half months, ive gone over 18,500 miles with it. when i pull off the fairings, i know what every part is, how it works in detail, and have no problem taking the whole bike apart and getting it back together so i can ride it to work the next day.
my 749 is my daily driver, and the most pratical of my 3 bikes...

if i was going to go for friendly ergonomics, id buy another ST, or maybe (gasp) an FJR....
i donno what hes talking about with the too much power thing...:confused: you can never have too much power. :D
 

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I have a '94 SS and a '99 996 and would sell the 4V long before the SuperSport. I've had 4V guys look down their nose at my SS because it's not the latest, greatest Duc like what they are riding. I think it's mostly they are look-at-me type riders that have that 4V superciliousness. I'm also certain that most of them have never ridden a 2V. A lot of people feel that if it's not posting the highest number on Cycle Worlds comparison chart then it's junk or that buying anything less makes yo a wantabe. I say screw 'em. Just enjoy what you like.
 

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...The power is fun but on the street, I spend more time slowing down than anything else. You have to be flying to make it feel like you're working the bike at all.
Ah, I see. So the the argument is that the superbikes aren't as usable on the street because of too much power and less friendly ergonomics.
...i donno what hes talking about with the too much power thing...:confused: you can never have too much power. :D
Me thinks I've been misquoted...

I never said the 996 had TOO MUCH power. I said the power was fun. But on the street it's not very useable, not for me anyway, not on the roads around here.

I've commuted on my 996 (25 miles each way) and I used to commute on my 900ss back in the day (65 miles each way). For me, the 900ss made a much better commuter bike than the 996 ever did. I've heard the 999/749 series are better in the ergos department but even so I've heard of guys putting mega miles on 916s too. It's a personal thing.

I've ridden a couple M900s and an S4 Monster. I liked them both but would buy an M900 over an S4. I also have a 907, so add a watercooled, fuel injected two valve to my list of experience... and still the 900ss is my sentimental favorite.
 

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if we were going by the Cycle Worlds comparison chart, we would all be on inline fours..... EEEEEWWWW.... :p

i had an ST.. that was a bit of a bastard child in this conversation, as its 2 valved, but liquid cooled......

and one of my fav bikes, that i will own used in the future, is the hypermotard.. and thats a air cooled 2 valve...


i guess thats why i dont have the 'hate'...
 

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Hate is quite a strong word.
I rather prefer the 2V Ducati motor over the 4V.
A project I'd like to complete is a water jacketed SS of some sort. Just..........because.


Dez
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I would go along with what the other guys say that have both, and that if I had to pick I would also pick the 2V, value not withstanding. But I love my 955sp. A 916 variant was always on my personal bucket list, and owning an ultra rare one makes it even better. It took a few rides, well maybe more than few, before I could speak 916 at all. Compared to modern superbikes it doesn't make that much power, but it does feel like a purpose built race bike. And it has a sound that has to be experienced to believed, V twin sound with a serious bark to it. And with the light internals it revs very quickly for an old bike.

My SS on the other hand is always fun to ride, and I have never felt like the bike was a power/speed limitation in street riding. Most of my fun roads have 50 to 90 mph curves, with few long straights, so the power isn't an issue. Simple light and torquey is a great recipe.

There is definitely room in my heart for both. Now I need an NCR Sport 1000 and a 999R. And a dual sport. And a truck to carry them.....
 

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1. What's so glorious about aircooled 2 valve Ducatis? Can someone please educate me?
The sound and the way they deliver their power ... they are simple old engines, I like mine with carb's over injection for the same reason

2. What's so wrong with the better performing engines with over 30-50% more HP and similar torque for roughly the same weight as the 2 valve air cooled engines? Is the maintenance that much harder or more expensive?
What Ducati make a 4 valve engine now ... wow next they'll be fuel injecting the 2 valve engines ... :eek:

All personal preference, nothing wrong with a bit of rivalry between engines (2V v. 4V v. 3V) and models (carb'd v. Ie) ...

 

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I have a Monster 750,S4,916,748, and a 998 and I love them all. Depends who I ride with is which bike I ride. I do like the rawness of the 748 and 750 if it makes sense, you guys with those probably understand. the S4,916, and the 998 seem to me like they have to have a lot of road to enjoy them. around town the 2 valvers, the highway 4 valve for me.
But, do understand that they are all Ducatis 2 or 4, we are all bikers one and the same...
 

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1. A lot of 2-valvers have deep seeded feelings of insecurity that manifest in hatred towards the 4-valvers they long for, but can't afford

2. A lot of 4-valvers are obnoxious snobs that have more money than skills, so to make up for it they're condescending to the 2-valvers

put another way: the 2-valvers often believe they're the true "Ducatisti" because their bike's roots go back to Stonehenge, while the 4-valvers believe they're the true Ducatisti because theirs are the ones that win all the races and make girls go gooey.

The truth is they're both right. If you own one, any one of any vintage, and you love it, then you know what it's all about and you're a true Ducatisti.

And just like military service automatically makes you a citizen, anyone who has ever performed a valve-job on a Ducati, is also the real-deal in my book! ;)
 
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