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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
It's not like you're forced to ride that race.
Riders know the risk and it's up to them to decide.

Let's cancel Isle of Man while we're at it. /[sarc]
What a bunch of stupid snowflakes!
 

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I have to agree, IOM TT gets a death every few years but one death on the pike peak race and they cancel it, yet a mass shooting in the US is still allowed to happen regularly. Its a crazy world we live in.
 

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I agree but it’s been more than one death on the hill. Been a few times to watch and it’s a great race
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited by Moderator)
I agree but it’s been more than one death on the hill. Been a few times to watch and it’s a great race
While that's true, there have been a considerable numbers of car deaths yet they're not cancelling for those.
 

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That's pretty sad. This race is growing by the year. If you're racing Pikes Peak, you understand the risk involved. I seriously doubt any rider wants to see the race canceled, even only for a year. If the race board of directors wants to be involved, maybe they should focus on making the race safer. At a minimum, why not try to fix some of the road hazards most riders were pointing out?
 

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Racing is dangerous, everyone knows that and accepts the risk. Have there been any high speed mountain races that haven’t had fatalities ?The car guys run the race and it sounds like they were looking for an excuse to exclude bikes.
 

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All I ever cared about with dangerous races was racers leaving family members behind, often in poor financial situations. I know that's been the case with several IOM TT deaths.

Yeah they know the risks. But the racers are generally a self centered bunch with no regards to their families they leave behind.

There is a two part solution. Part 1: If the racer is married, the wife is required to sign a waiver that she understands the risks. No signature, no race. Part 2: If the racer is married, $500K minimum of life insurance is required from one of the several special risk insurers that is available. No life insurance, no race.

BTW, if you think this kind of insurance isn't real, get yourself learned because I had it on myself when I raced.

That might be enough to make the snowflakes shut the hell up and leave our races alone. I would be happy with it.
 

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You guys seem to forget that the pikes peak race is a car race first and foremost and it is run by car guys who are completely ignorant when it comes to racing motorcycles - in the same way that most average non-riding Americans are ignorant about motorcycles. It is not OUR race it is their race. There have been bike deaths in the last 3 PP races and crashes but few (zero?) deaths from the 4 wheel classes. They have no clue what to do about it and dont really care whether motorcycles are included or not so it's just easier to ban them.
 

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Part of the problem is that since they paved that last upper section, the road has been deteriorating and receiving minimal maintenance. Given that they don’t seem to be able to maintain the road, and that they also have such a crowded schedule that the motorcycle riders don’t even get a full set of practice sessions in, I don’t know if there’s another good option at this point.
 

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Let's start a pool; I say two more days before this thread gets locked. It went from motorcyclists getting shut out to who voted for President Trump ~just that fast~. Gun control, gay marriage, the American President ... all have been splattered against the wall in this thread. 2 more days, max.

On topic here; My dad and I used to go to Ascot Park every chance we had. I saw a man die right before my wide open 14 year old eyes on my 14th birthday there. One year later I watched another man die, again as my wide open eyes were glued to the battle between three racers went on and the racer was killed as he ran straight into the crash wall at 90mph.

Those were but two flat track racers that were killed among a long list of them over the years, many of which were at Ascot. This is something easily verified if one wishes to doubt what I've written here. Ascot was not closed due to rider risk, it was closed in the very early 1990s due to the owners of the property wanting to convert it into an industrial park ... and to this day the property remains a large, useless, parking lot. But it was not repurposed due to rider danger. This too is easily verified.

And yet, American flat track racing not only continues, but it grows. It's seeing a wonderful resurgence of late, actually. Riders still get killed racing flat track, even today. Shall we ban it as well?

If it's ok to "ban" motorcycles from Pikes Peak due to it's "dangerous and deadly nature" ... then we had best look at banning motorcycles from being built, sold, owned, and especially ridden .. AT ALL .. in the USA. Bikers die every day, mostly on public roads and highways. FAR FAR FAR more than on race tracks. So, with the logic used by yet another committee (PP) that insists on saving us motorcyclists from ourselves, then all motorcycle use, ownership, selling, importing, manufacturing, must be banned out of existence. Y'know, cuz we're all too stupid to know any better and we MUST be saved from ourselves.

And what of cars? Tens of thousands of people die every year ... woopsy! ... time to ban cars. People die every year of alcohol use (either long term use or from alcohol poisoning at parties or during hazing events) ... time to ban alcohol!

That insurance notion? ... yet another idea that would preclude less wealthy people from participating in the Pikes Peak race and only permitting the wealthiest and/or most sponsored to participate ... reeks of elitism. Same thing with the spousal "permission slip" ... what happens in a falling-apart marriage with a mean spirited spouse that won't sign the permission slip just to spite the would-be participant? Bad idea from the get-go.

People die by the hundreds ... all at once ... flying in commercial airliners ... ban them as well?

This idea of saving people from themselves just plain old sucks. Fix the upper portion of the track at Pikes Peak? Why, that would cost too much because the weather causes so much damage it would need annual repair efforts (the roads freeze during winter, which makes the surface crack and deteriorate) ... so the entry fee would need to triple ... yet another cost of entry fee increase.

No-one held a gun to Collin's head to force him to go as fast as he did on the final portion, he made that decision on his own. He knew the risks of going as fast as he did ... he made his own choice to do that ... he gambled, and lost. That's on him.

:|
 

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It may be "too soon' or even in bad taste to ask this question, but, if bad road conditions helped cause his accident do you you think he may have survived if riding a Multistrada? Did the bike he was riding have suspension equal to the Multistrada he has won on in the past?
 

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It may be "too soon' or even in bad taste to ask this question, but, if bad road conditions helped cause his accident do you you think he may have survived if riding a Multistrada? Did the bike he was riding have suspension equal to the Multistrada he has won on in the past?

Doesn't matter. If he had a machine with 'superior' anything, he would have then pushed that 'anything' to its limit just as he did with the machine he was on. And, when you push to your/your machine's limits, bad things can happen. Sadly, something did. To somehow think that 'if he'd only had this or that, he wouldn't have crashed' shows a complete separation from the many times' harsh reality of motorsports.

I've also read comments (not just here) about some 'defect' in the racing surface having caused the crash. Again, even if it had been a contributor, that's part of the risk. Make every last square inch of the pavement billiard table smooth and as grippy as technology will allow. The racer will just push to the new, higher, riskier limit. And, eventually, exceed it. But, now that the limit's been raised, the consequences of a mistake become more grave.
 

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The hill as it stands is to dangerous in parts to race bikes. It needs repairs first. Repair the fucking hill, America lags behind the world in not only race riders, but quality race tracks that suit Motorcycles. Fix the fucking hill, make it safer, its an iconic race and needs to keep growing
 

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That insurance notion? ... yet another idea that would preclude less wealthy people from participating in the Pikes Peak race and only permitting the wealthiest and/or most sponsored to participate ... reeks of elitism. Same thing with the spousal "permission slip" ... what happens in a falling-apart marriage with a mean spirited spouse that won't sign the permission slip just to spite the would-be participant? Bad idea from the get-go.
Har. The racer's life insurance notion is for the wealthiest and reeks of elitism? If it worked for a loser like me, you better re-think that idea. It doesn't cost that much. There's all kinds of special risk insurance. I looked into it when I wanted to try skydiving.

I got my special risk coverage right through my regular work plan and it was super easy. I just called them up, told them what I was doing, told them how I wanted my family set up should I bite it, and they just took the premium out of my paycheck. But other racers I know have used ridersurance.com to get a life insurance quote for a racer. I heard they aren't bad at all.

As for the falling apart marriage with a mean spirited spouse... get a freaking divorce and go racing. Man... you're really grasping for ideas to fight against. Put your anger to better use.

Once again since this raging thread is is meandering, I contend that the only problem with a death while racing is if it's an irresponsible one - One that leaves family members behind, unprepared both mentally and financially. Racer's life insurance and spousal sign-off is the answer.

I don't expect you change your mind but this is for anyone else.
 

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The hill as it stands is to dangerous in parts to race bikes. It needs repairs first. Repair the fucking hill, America lags behind the world in not only race riders, but quality race tracks that suit Motorcycles. Fix the fucking hill, make it safer, its an iconic race and needs to keep growing

And, as of yet, I have not seen a single photo of the spot that was supposed to have lead to him losing control. How does one go about 'fixing the fucking hill, making it safer'? There was a bump. That's all I've read. Anywhere. So, you fix the bump. Then, as I explained earlier, they go faster. Because they can. Someone else crashes and is maimed or killed. Then what? Guardrails? Another injury/death. Air fences? Catch fences? They're racing the clock up a damned mountainside. In the grand scheme of things, what sense is there in doing it at all? You know, because that's not a terribly safe thing to do.
 

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Let's start a pool; I say two more days before this thread gets locked. It went from motorcyclists getting shut out to who voted for President Trump ~just that fast~. Gun control, gay marriage, the American President ... all have been splattered against the wall in this thread. 2 more days, max.
Rex just posted something I agree with 100%.
About half of the comments in this thread are way out of line for this forum and I've just pruned the hell out of it.

Those of you who would care to remain members here for the long term, please read The Rules Of The Road and take them to heart.
 

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Doesn't matter. If he had a machine with 'superior' anything, he would have then pushed that 'anything' to its limit just as he did with the machine he was on. And, when you push to your/your machine's limits, bad things can happen. Sadly, something did. To somehow think that 'if he'd only had this or that, he wouldn't have crashed' shows a complete separation from the many times' harsh reality of motorsports.

I've also read comments (not just here) about some 'defect' in the racing surface having caused the crash. Again, even if it had been a contributor, that's part of the risk. Make every last square inch of the pavement billiard table smooth and as grippy as technology will allow. The racer will just push to the new, higher, riskier limit. And, eventually, exceed it. But, now that the limit's been raised, the consequences of a mistake become more grave.
It's not that simple... performance and venue need to be matched. There's a reason why tracks are prepped... and there's a reason why performance restrictions are put in place for many classes of racing. It does matter if he's riding a bike with 4" of suspension or almost 8" if the track is such that 8" provides an increased amount of control. Alternatively... power level can be limited if 4" of suspension is being used on a track where that lack of suspension can lead to loss of control at rates beyond human ability to mitigate.

All other parts of the performance envelope being equal... more suspension results in better ability to manage uneven road surface at any given speed, and more ability of a skilled rider to manage those conditions.

IMO the answer isn't to stop bike racing... it's to manage risk better either through improved road prep or functional (not just a second order 'no clip-on' rule) limitations on performance to insure a reasonable level of risk for a highly skilled rider given the imperfect road surface.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
If it's ok to "ban" motorcycles from Pikes Peak due to it's "dangerous and deadly nature" ... then we had best look at banning motorcycles from being built, sold, owned, and especially ridden .. AT ALL .. in the USA. Bikers die every day, mostly on public roads and highways. FAR FAR FAR more than on race tracks. So, with the logic used by yet another committee (PP) that insists on saving us motorcyclists from ourselves, then all motorcycle use, ownership, selling, importing, manufacturing, must be banned out of existence. Y'know, cuz we're all too stupid to know any better and we MUST be saved from ourselves.

And what of cars? Tens of thousands of people die every year ... woopsy! ... time to ban cars. People die every year of alcohol use (either long term use or from alcohol poisoning at parties or during hazing events) ... time to ban alcohol!
This idea of saving people from themselves just plain old sucks.
:|
Your comment about "saving people from themselves" encapsulates the very heart of this thread. People have to take responsibility for their own actions and the risk they take providing that it doesn't endanger others. Racing is dangerous regardless of track conditions. Carlin Dunne knew the risk. Banning motorcycles from Pikes Peak will not bring him back or prevent any other racer from injuries here or anywhere else.
 

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And, as of yet, I have not seen a single photo of the spot that was supposed to have lead to him losing control. How does one go about 'fixing the fucking hill, making it safer'? There was a bump. That's all I've read. Anywhere. So, you fix the bump. Then, as I explained earlier, they go faster. Because they can. Someone else crashes and is maimed or killed. Then what? Guardrails? Another injury/death. Air fences? Catch fences? They're racing the clock up a damned mountainside. In the grand scheme of things, what sense is there in doing it at all? You know, because that's not a terribly safe thing to do.
Every year the TT track in the Isle of Man is inspected and repaired to a good standard to race on, if its a surface to be raced on, the least that can be expected is at least the surface is safe, how fast you ride is up to the rider.
 

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What I understand from reporting here in colorado, the motorcycle ban was instituted partly because each MC accident causes long delays of the race. This on top of the other reason being that with the asphalt to the top the speeds have increased to apparently unbearable danger for the snowflakes of today. Hopefully the organizers will come back to their senses.
 
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