Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner

41 - 58 of 58 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter #41
On another note I got the new sprocket on. I never trust the procedures where you adjust on the sidestand, too many variables. So, on centerstand, I turned key on, set bike rear preload on single rider, and ratchet strapped rear wheel upwards until it bottomed. Then I left just a very small amount of slack. Checked it in a few more positions, I'm satisfied. No tool needed, no guesswork.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,696 Posts
GS maintenance is very cheap compared to Ducati. I did the valve adjust on my buddy's bike on a lunch hour, never having done it before too. Shaft drive is easier than chain. Spark plugs practically are in your hand, rear wheel comes off 5 min. etc. I would say less maintenance than the Yamaha actually.
I have R1100S, coils tend to fry, clutch splines wear out like dry clutches on Ducati. Valve adjustments are easy, but you need to tear out the whole ass end from the bike to lube shaft splines at 40k (did mine) ABS bleeding procedure as complicated as desmo valve service, got to remove the tank to get at the battery, or bleed the brakes... and of course clutch replacement you got to split the bike in half... While I find Beemer more reliable working on the Duc seemed easier, although I suspect my Multi is not as simple as 900SS and or Desmoquattros that I has in the past, just looking at that tank makes my eye twitch...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,113 Posts
Every time I read a thread about a Ducati not handling right it turns out the suspension has never been properly set up. Sounds like the case here too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
839 Posts
Every time I read a thread about a Ducati not handling right it turns out the suspension has never been properly set up. Sounds like the case here too.
Absolutely, got to get that rear preload set correct for fast solo rider, the rear has to deal with firstly the HP of the engine and the drive, then secondly bumps, i would be putting my money on the fact from 2013 onwards they fitted a progressive spring on the Sachs multis, I've ridden back to back my 2010 Ohlins and the 2013 Sachs, Night and day handling difference, we both agreed the 2010 was far superior, and all that was needed was to take out some of the first part of the springs travel where it was too soft, more preload dialled in, and it transformed the bike, the first part of the travel was soft, so fast spring compression to a quickly hardning spring and compression dampning being upped, making for a spungy then solid harsh feel, we got rid of this by much more preload taking out the initial fast compression of the spring, the bike felt much more like my ohlins 2010. As for high speed instability, ist possibly down to a combination of soft first travel of springs, and a motorcycle that has a large fairing wide bars, etc, the bike needs firming up for high speed, a smaller screen wuld also help if you want to go fast most of the time.
 

·
Retired Pipe Polisher C2H6O+
Joined
·
18,186 Posts
Dudes. If you can change your preload, front or rear, within its normal range and make a bike tank slap you got problems somewhere else.

It’s perfectly normal for a bike with bags to wobble a little at high speeds. Again, that’s why the manufacturers warn you about it.

I mean, come on, why do you think Motogp bike don’t have bags and a trunk? Trust me. If it made them faster they would do it. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
839 Posts
Dudes. If you can change your preload, front or rear, within its normal range and make a bike tank slap you got problems somewhere else.

It’s perfectly normal for a bike with bags to wobble a little at high speeds. Again, that’s why the manufacturers warn you about it.

I mean, come on, why do you think Motogp bike don’t have bags and a trunk? Trust me. If it made them faster they would do it. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Ive been up to 220 kph Duckman with my panniers on, and the Multi was stable, i followed my mate down this very long straight, we both reached indicated 240kph, and sat on 220 for about 4 kms, bike was stable, a dead still day tho, i could imagine if you were following something close, the disturbed air in front of you would upset the bike, even following a truck at a 100 plus kms, it will upset the bike to a degree.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter #47
Every time I read a thread about a Ducati not handling right it turns out the suspension has never been properly set up. Sounds like the case here too.
I sure hope that is the case. I have made changes, and hope to try it out in next week or two. I will report back with results. In order to be a valid test, I'll have to load it similarly, and then try redistributing, and then finally removing bags. If it begins to wobble I'm not going to ride through it, f that. As far as I knew, my settings were correct on Skyhook. No mention of front preload adjusting in manual pertaining to skyhook. Glad 2nd poster pointed me in that direction!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter #48
OK, to recap, so I made changes to bike. Went down one tooth on C/S sprocket(love it!). I found that I had the damping set on "softer" both front and rear. I probably did this on a ride with wife a long time ago. Anyway, I went on a 2 day off road ride, with tail trunk on (pretty heavily loaded), and no panniers. Since it was off road, also put TKC 80's on front and rear. I am happy to report there was NO speed wobble as tested to an indicated 132mph. Still pulling fine, but good enough! Settings were Sport, 2 up with luggage, harder damping rear, harder damping front, touring windscreen in low position, and I weigh 260 lbs. Unfortunately I don't know if it was tires, suspension settings, or lack of panniers...but I believe suspension settings. I'm embarrassed to say I started a thread without having set up properly. On another note this bike is very capable with the TKC 80's. I just did the WA. backcountry route with buddy on his GS1200. In Enduro mode, I had preload maxed, hardest front and rear on damping to help with bottoming, DTC and DWC off, ABS on 1, and medium engine power. Just the thumps of the engine at idle, or slightly above, allowed it to crawl up very technical stuff. Very rocky in places, my main concern was not to break a wheel. Centerstand hit a half dozen times, but no worse for the wear. Great ride, those tires and gear change transformed the bike! We went past a group of 5 that hit RH crankcase on a GS800, even had bash plate but rock hit right in unprotected vulnerable spot. They JB welded it on the trail, and got some oil from a jeep guy. Overall I am digging the s**t out of this bike. Easily trounced GS1200, and a stupid Acura TSX that wanted some. We all left the light, got some air in 1st but DWC on setting 1 set it down easy. Right when front wheel started to touch I grabbed 2nd and carried front wheel all the way to 75mph just a few inches off the ground. Never felt so good LOL. Advantage: Ducati
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Adding a top case brought out the problem for the first time

Posting my speed wobble experience in case it helps. I’ve had a 2018 MS950 for about a year now, outfitted with spoked wheels, Pirelli Scorpion Rally’s (the nobbier ones)) and all the Enduro protections because I’m legitimately off-road in the mountains on my farm a few days a week on it, but I”m also out on the freeways of central California weekly as well - so no stranger to “high” speeds on open empty highways. That bike devours it all with ease and never once experienced wobble until last week. Up until last week, I did not own side panniers or a top case. Last week I had to travel several hundred miles and figured I’d do it on the bike, so I bought the matching Ducati MS panniers and top case kit. First, I luuuuuuuuv my MS - if I lost it today there isn’t another bike I would purchase instead - but both those panniers and top case have to be one of the worst value-for-the-dollar purchases I’ve ever made in my life. No sweat, they look pretty and function to hold stuff. But it’s what they did to my ride that is the worst. At 80mph, every time I accelerated to pass trucks or cars - and let’s face it, everybody is driving 80mph on the freeways in California and so practically speaking to pass pretty much anybody on the freeway you need to accelerate from 80mph to achieve passing speed - the front end would go into speed wobble. Every time. I tried playing with the spring damping and pre-load a bit between rest stops, noticed a slight but not really acceptable benefit. Laying forward on the tank with a light grip on the bars in a sport-bike tuck helped the most, but I seriously cannot even count the number of times I needed to recapture stability from a speed wobble at high speed on that long road trip and it really screwed with my safe-passing game. I tried slowing down and just letting other people pass me - but that was almost just as un-nerving on a 7-hour road trip. I may want to use that top case again (despite it being a grossly overpriced P.O.S.), so I guess I’ll go get the Ohlins steering damper installed. If I had two suggestions they would be (a) if you’re going to get a top case, just make sure you buy a steering damper too, and (b) responsible manufacturers may want to recommend the two always be purchased together.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
So, I have some questions pertaining to this. I have a 2016 S model that I recently purchased. I have been fiddling with the suspension in an attempt to stiffen it up but also keep it compliant. Given the option I think with my background I should have gone with a PP as I have extensive years with sportbikes and track time. But that being said I do love this bike. Currently in Sport mode it feels decent but for casual riding its a handful. Very difficult to keep things smooth as I feel like every bump jars me so much that I jack the throttle! I typically keep it in touring mode with some tweaks for daily rides and use sport only for sunday rips on the back roads. I have only experienced the wobble once with this bike sans bags and I was following two other guys. It was not terrible but got my attention. In May I was in California riding a 2019 S model with bags. When behind a buddy on an enduro pro his bags and the subsequent hole it punched in the air gave me crazy turbulence and caused major wobble. The suspension on that bike was never really touched by me other than using the factory parameters so I assumed on the bike I bought that I would be able to correct some things. However, I keep reading about the manual preload adjustment on the forums and there is nothing in the owners manual that I can find. I also would like to set up the sag properly but again, info on this seems few and far between. I know that front preload can be manually adjusted on the rt leg and I plan on addressing this as I feel that being 210lbs it's got way too much dive for my tastes. Is it possible to also turn up the rear manually? I do not see provisions for achieving this. And how have some of you set up the sag properly on the skyhook versions? Also on the front the arrows are lined up on top of the leg. I am assuming that is the factory setting but what is that setting exactly? I have not fiddled with it yet but is the correct procedure to turn to full hard which presume to be clockwise and then each subsequent turn past the arrows is one turn? Forgive my ignorance but this is my first foray into the world of sorcery which is electronic suspension.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Thank you for your constructive input to my query. Since you have nothing to actually contribute other than your editing input, how about you just keep your snarky comments to yourself.
That would be great.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
Mine was handling like yours. I adjusted the front preload, which stopped the diving but it was still too harsh. I took it in for the suspension to be set up and after much hopping on and off the bike and measuring, they adjusted everything to get it right for my weight. They did all the settings from the front preload and adjusted all the electronic settings for the rear.
Cost me £50 and was well worth it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
So, I have some questions pertaining to this. I have a 2016 S model that I recently purchased. I have been fiddling with the suspension in an attempt to stiffen it up but also keep it compliant. Given the option I think with my background I should have gone with a PP as I have extensive years with sportbikes and track time. But that being said I do love this bike. Currently in Sport mode it feels decent but for casual riding its a handful. Very difficult to keep things smooth as I feel like every bump jars me so much that I jack the throttle! I typically keep it in touring mode with some tweaks for daily rides and use sport only for sunday rips on the back roads. I have only experienced the wobble once with this bike sans bags and I was following two other guys. It was not terrible but got my attention. In May I was in California riding a 2019 S model with bags. When behind a buddy on an enduro pro his bags and the subsequent hole it punched in the air gave me crazy turbulence and caused major wobble. The suspension on that bike was never really touched by me other than using the factory parameters so I assumed on the bike I bought that I would be able to correct some things. However, I keep reading about the manual preload adjustment on the forums and there is nothing in the owners manual that I can find. I also would like to set up the sag properly but again, info on this seems few and far between. I know that front preload can be manually adjusted on the rt leg and I plan on addressing this as I feel that being 210lbs it's got way too much dive for my tastes. Is it possible to also turn up the rear manually? I do not see provisions for achieving this. And how have some of you set up the sag properly on the skyhook versions? Also on the front the arrows are lined up on top of the leg. I am assuming that is the factory setting but what is that setting exactly? I have not fiddled with it yet but is the correct procedure to turn to full hard which presume to be clockwise and then each subsequent turn past the arrows is one turn? Forgive my ignorance but this is my first foray into the world of sorcery which is electronic suspension.
I don't know why you think a PP would be better for you. I've got 15yrs superbike and track experience and find the Skyhook suspension on my 16 1200S capable of everything I need it to do (and it does it very well when setup properly).
Setting sag on a Active/Semi suspension bike is the same as non-e suspension. Arrows on the fork preload adjuster don't mean anything. Make your rider sag 56mm front/rear (1/3rd of total travel).
To adjust rear preload just go into the suspension settings on the screen and add to compression. Easy-peasy.
I'm 210lbs before adding riding gear. I run 95% in Touring mode as it's all-day plush yet I can drag knee as it stiffens up just right when trailbraking into a corner (adding front preload properly will get rid of excessive dive at speed, it'll still dive a bunch at stopsigns but that's a long travel tradeoff). Sport mode only needed for the most technical roads.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
The reason I said PP was because of the manual suspension adjustment. I have no doubt the skyhook will work and work well, it was just more of a confusion as to adjustment. I’ll take your advice and set up the sag accordingly. I agree as to the fork dive. It’s going to happen to some degree due to the inherent travel. It’s been awhile since I was on a long travel machine. I have no doubt that once set up properly this machine will be amazing. I’m already very pleased with it. Thanks for the replies!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,113 Posts
Lots of motorcycles get unstable at high speed with luggage and/or passenger. Some brands are better than others. Setting up suspension properly, installing a steering damper, changing tires, can all help, but you may never get rid of it. There is just going to be a point of maximum stability that you reach and throwing money at it may be a lost cause. Just because some other brand is more stable doesn’t mean yours will ever be it’s equivalent . Every design has its limits.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
234 Posts
Couple of things to bear in mind as you dive in to suspension settings on the Skyhook bikes:

Unless the bike is powered on, you cannot set sag correctly. Just a function of how the system works. Without power, the valves in the fork and shock close more or less completely after a couple compressions, from that point the suspension is basically immobile.

I don't think anyone has conclusively proven that the front preload on these bikes does anything. Feel free to test it yourself; I did, and while I don't have access to a spring dynamometer, my manual testing showed zero increase in effective total travel (measured w/ zip-tie), sag, or perceived stiffness regardless of preload setting. Hard to know what that means, the suspension on these bikes uses progressive rate springs, so drawing any useful conclusions about performance without expensive testing equipment is difficult at best. Looking at the preload mechanism itself, I'm not even convinced it's physically doing anything other than turning in place; it doesn't appear to displace along the vertical axis of the fork. How, then, does it work? Magnets, I guess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
That “problem” is if you want a sport touring bike that handles like a sport bike naked, it’s not going to have great high speed stability when loaded for touring.

My ST3S and my KTM 990 SMT both fall into this category. It’s really not a big deal. The manufactures always warn about it happening in the owners manual.

The only time it bothers me is when getting into the turbulence of 18 wheelers on the highway when passing them at 90+ mph. I just get light on the bars and ride through it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I agree. Problem is we ride very fast a good portion of the time. 90mph is our average on trips, with lots of bursts above that. I still would like to know how the damn GS1200 is so stable, must be the telelever front. I have now lost on a top speed race on an S1000XR and the Multi, both due to speed wobble. Kinda sucks because they're always touting their GS's are the best. Maybe so. I can't get around looks of them(yet). But they are starting to make me a believer lol. I just want this Multi to be as fast as its designed, everything else I love about it.


Yeah switch to a GS and deal with fork failure! Definitely not for me but to each there own. I’ll deal with a bit of wobble as it usually comes down to tires and or suspension.
 
41 - 58 of 58 Posts
Top