[Quaaack]

Greetings , been following some of the posts on new 1260 being stronger / smoother /more linear torque curve power band (on dyno graphs) and rider reports,
but my question is more specific..does the new 1260 bike/engine have the same the same jerky/hesitation/surge/stumble/chugging issues at "Down Low" rpm (idle to 3-4 k)
as my new 2016 P/P has ? I know others have had similar issues like me...but has Ducati fixed any of that unacceptable behavior for 2018??? Really sucks !
( I have voiced many complaints on my "fueling issues" on the forum before)

I'm not a happy camper, and cannot live with this crap..I plan to try a 2018 maybe next month , and compare them myself, ..schedule /weather/personal issues permitting ...
I've been only able to put about 200 miles on my bike, and would like to do my first service at that time, and have any downloads/updates on my bike that haven't been done..done
but I'm not getting a warm-fuzzy feeling that fixing my problem ...and from reliable sources I have.. nobody has an aftermarket /true/ fix/ecu flash for the 15-17 DVT's
I know the Termi comes with an ecu change that is a big help,weight/heat/performance wise...but that comes with a big cost/ noise/ and liability issues

Having had lots of Ducati's since the 70's , I was really looking forward to this one,( better suited for my old tired body/bones ) but I'm trying to decide what to do going forward
Do I throw more money / do service etc on the 2016 P/P ,in hopes of a fix or keep the miles down , take a hit and put more money towards a 18 S , (2018 P/P not a good financial option)
would like to keep the one I have , but am I dreaming to think there is a viable solution for this mess ?

Appreciate any feedback

 

[Glen]

I have a 2015 1200s, had two ecu flash fixes and sensor replacement all from Ducati service at my dealer, service bulletins.
My bike runs real smooth, nothing like your saying:

"jerky/hesitation/surge/stumble/chugging issues at "Down Low" rpm (idle to 3-4 k) "



Sent from my SM-T705W using Tapatalk

 

[ScottF]

I have a 2015 1200s, had two ecu flash fixes and sensor replacement all from Ducati service at my dealer, service bulletins.
My bike runs real smooth, nothing like your saying:

"jerky/hesitation/surge/stumble/chugging issues at "Down Low" rpm (idle to 3-4 k) "



Sent from my SM-T705W using Tapatalk

I also have a 2015 model and experience none of the problems the poster describes.

 

[HNMTS1200]

In the end it's about whether you enjoy riding the bike... Clearly, OP does not and my money is on him never getting there with the 2016.

My recommendation is to test ride the 2018... if it fits the bill, I would wait six months and pick up a lightly used S or even a PP. In 2017 I was quoted a hair over $19,000 (not including sales tax) to have a new 2016 PP shipped across the country to me.

... in any case, it seems to me that what the OP is actually looking for is the 2017 1200GS... model was updated last year and used examples could probably be had for $16,500...

Life is short and there are so many different bikes out there that struggling with one does not really seem worth it.

 

[Crazybrother]

Hey Quaaack, send me a PM with your contact info. I might be able to help you out.
George.

 

[Rhino TX]

I have none of those issues on my 2015 1200 S either. But I do have full Termi with Termi flash. I bought it that way and have no idea how it runs stock.

 

[DaveK]

In the end it's about whether you enjoy riding the bike... Clearly, OP does not and my money is on him never getting there with the 2016.

My recommendation is to test ride the 2018... if it fits the bill, I would wait six months and pick up a lightly used S or even a PP. In 2017 I was quoted a hair over $19,000 (not including sales tax) to have a new 2016 PP shipped across the country to me.

... in any case, it seems to me that what the OP is actually looking for is the 2017 1200GS... model was updated last year and used examples could probably be had for $16,500...

Life is short and there are so many different bikes out there that struggling with one does not really seem worth it.

What the guy is complaining about sounds like the nature of a twin... he should get out of Ducati and buy an XR or a Triumph Explorer - he'll be much happier with their power delivery.

 

[BSheppard]

I have a 2015 1200S and have had several flashes done over the past few years. Mine runs really well with zero issues. I have had a BUNCH of ducs since the 90’s and this has been the smoothest by a good bit.

 

[DaveK]

I have a 2015 1200S and have had several flashes done over the past few years. Mine runs really well with zero issues. I have had a BUNCH of ducs since the 90’s and this has been the smoothest by a good bit.

Agree... my cousin has a 13S and power wise it feels identical to my 15S... with the one exception being at low rpm where the 15 gives you maybe 500rpm more usable range. Before I started changing gearing (so they were both identical) he'd generally be one gear higher than me in lower speed areas (towns).

However... while the DVT IS smoother at low rpm, it's still rough compared to my Tiger for instance (which is silky smooth into the 2k range). It just depends on what you want... when I was loafing I'd find myself running the DVT at higher rpm than the Tiger (mid-high 3k range vs mid-high 2k range) and up there it was plenty smooth and got the same fuel economy as the tiger (low 50's). This was before gearing and performance updates that will certainly ding mileage.

 

[HNMTS1200]

What the guy is complaining about sounds like the nature of a twin... he should get out of Ducati and buy an XR or a Triumph Explorer - he'll be much happier with their power delivery.

Agree... I just recommended the GS because it's a twin and I think smoother than the KTM. Pretty sure given the sensitivity to one of the smoother twin motors out there (DVT), I'm pretty sure OP will be sensitive to XR vibrations.

 

[Quaaack]

Hey guys, thanks for the comments and feedback, for the record I've had multi 3/4 cylinder bikes of different brands in the past , and they have never stirred my soul like twins I've had.
My twin ownership / seat time has been with lots of British , Japanese, German, and of course Italian (never any American units) and I've always had a BMW in the garage since around 1980
at the same time as other brands . Have found most multis like BMW (in the past ) to be too "buzzy", of course having said that, I can remember some vertical twins that have put my hands to sleep also.
I do have an older GS in the garage now ( 96) that I bought new , and it has always been my "default" touring rig. I like the air/oil heads I've had ,but not the triple or quad motors so much,
However I would like to try one of the new 2014+ "water boxers" one of these days ...but my hope now is to use my new Multi P/P as a replacement for the old GS for some touring,
and as a more comfortable replacement for one of my Ducati sportbikes .

But I don't want to start throwing money at buying bags, better seat, windscreen etc for the Multi until I see if my selling dealer or another, can tame the low rpm jumpy bad behavior out of the P/P.
I really really hope the update flashes at the first checkup will work for me as it has for others ...I don't know if my problem is mechanical or digital..or both ..and I'm not giving up/jumping ship,
cause from the comments , other DVT drivers are happy. The jury is still out on my dealer <sigh>and whether any updates/prep was done prior to my taking delivery ...hell the tire pressures were only
20+ psi <frown>, and the bike has sat around for a year or two...ducati engineers are smart , I'm sure they have some tweaks/updates to the fuel mapping and other things.

When I posted my original question ,( 18 vs 16 dvt) I was trying to come up with a planB or planC ,upgrade/downgrade if plan A goes to hell....meanwhile I'm gonna try to get in some miles today
and tomorrow before I have to head to the east coast and spend a week there for a funeral <ugh> I'm anxious to get the magic 600miles before I haul the bike a few hours away
for the checkup , but that probably won't be until next month ....unless some that Global-Warming stuff I hear about kicks in

 

[VinceS]

never stirred my soul like twins I've had.

Then fix it and get the rest of the experience. Get a Power Commander properly dyno-tuned on (not some 'fantastic' www map) and live the dream. Pretty simple, won't cost more than about $800 and the issue just goes away, as well as a fatter mid-range turning up. My ST4S with PC3 pulls smoothly from 1.5k, in 5th up a gentle hill and light throttle. Not much point to that, but in practical use it pulls easily from a bit over 2k with whatever throttle I like, about what it used to do from high 3's. Doesn't sound much but means even the tightest twisties I don't need to use second unless steep hills are involved. So riding quick gets easier and nicer. Just do it!

 

[Billy Bones]

Get a Rapidbike EVO. adds a bunch of torque and smooths everything out. Amazing on my 2015 DVT

https://rapidbike.us/products/rb-evo-ducati-multistrada-10-14

 

[VinceS]

Rapid Bike ECU Modulators - They Look Great!!!

Get a Rapidbike EVO. adds a bunch of torque and smooths everything out. https://rapidbike.us/products/rb-evo-ducati-multistrada-10-14

Thanks for that BB, I had never heard of RB and they certainly sound like a useful improvement to previous products. Are these things just 'fit and ride', with the auto-tuning function sorting out the fueling table over the next 200km, which is what they seem to say? So saves the cost of the dyno but still gets an individually tuned on map, which I KNOW is an essential part of properly using these kinds of adjustment devices.

RB make a claim that 'others' can't fuel in what they call 'the blue zone' (being low throttle, low revs, about bottom 20% of each) which is not true for the PC3 as this is what they excel at when tuned on properly. But that's about it - everything else looks smarter / better, I'll be going for an Rapid Bikes EVO model next time its needed! So thanks again for pointing it out.

RB has units available for all of the more recent Ducatis (2010 on, at least), which gives a clue about the realities of modern production manufacturing, and of course 'decisions made by others on our behalf' about emissions levels etc that could potentially use 'some adjustment'! Despite the stories of some about their magical smoothness experiences, I can only say no Ducati I have ever owned or test ridden had such attributes; they all needed some work in that sub-3,000 rpm range. Or just don't go there and be happy!

 

[DaveK]

Thanks for that BB, I had never heard of RB and they certainly sound like a useful improvement to previous products. Are these things just 'fit and ride', with the auto-tuning function sorting out the fueling table over the next 200km, which is what they seem to say? So saves the cost of the dyno but still gets an individually tuned on map, which I KNOW is an essential part of properly using these kinds of adjustment devices.

RB make a claim that 'others' can't fuel in what they call 'the blue zone' (being low throttle, low revs, about bottom 20% of each) which is not true for the PC3 as this is what they excel at when tuned on properly. But that's about it - everything else looks smarter / better, I'll be going for an Rapid Bikes EVO model next time its needed! So thanks again for pointing it out.

RB has units available for all of the more recent Ducatis (2010 on, at least), which gives a clue about the realities of modern production manufacturing, and of course 'decisions made by others on our behalf' about emissions levels etc that could potentially use 'some adjustment'! Despite the stories of some about their magical smoothness experiences, I can only say no Ducati I have ever owned or test ridden had such attributes; they all needed some work in that sub-3,000 rpm range. Or just don't go there and be happy!

The Powercommander for the DVT Multi specifically says it doesn't work at part throttle low-mid rpm range. There may be other models that do but I discounted the PC series after reading their own literature and looking at the unit (which only has one plug... no way it can modify closed loop with one plug... you need to override the o2 input or the ecu will comp out any timing change the module makes.

One of the guys mentioned that there was a PC that had a wideband O2 input and a lot of other features that I'd actually have been really interested in... but if that's all available in the DVT version of the PC they're doing a REALLY poor job of advertising that unit.

 

[VinceS]

PC Wideband Info

One of the guys mentioned that there was a PC that had a wideband O2 input and a lot of other features that I'd actually have been really interested in... but if that's all available in the DVT version of the PC they're doing a REALLY poor job of advertising that unit.

Fascinating. Whilst I love it, the ST4S is pretty agricultural - and the PC3 sure makes a well worthwhile improvement to the performance right through the range. But any of my comments come from that perspective / level of ignorance!

Just checked and PC explain the blue zone pretty well, whether this does what they say seems to be a question RB want to examine more too: https://www.power-commander-shop.com/090/Power-Commander-Accessoires-O2-Sensor-Eliminator.htm

The wideband info is here: Dynojet Wide Band 2, Air/Fuel Ratio Monitor Kit, WB2, Dynojet Research Inc, Performance Tuning

I personally own a dual channel one of these: LM-2 Wideband O2 Digital Air/fuel Ratio Meter

The IM LM2 x 2 unit works just fine, but right now I wouldn't try to compare the two. Heck, buy on price would probably do! Just don't think you can 'later extend' a single channel LM2 as they leave out a bunch of electronics in the guts, always a surprise to people finding out the hard way!

 

[VinceS]

Say, if we were getting into the topic, not sure if we are / should, I note this Auto-tune offering from PC too: Auto Tune Kit, Autotune, Power Commander AutoTune

Must admit, on a quick review I like the look of the Rapid Bike stuff better, but you'd do a proper assessment before going either way as they seem to be directly competing similar featured products...

 

[AussieFarmboy]

I cant speak for the Multi but I did test ride an XDiavelS on the weekend and can say it had no such issue. However any load on the engine caused by the right wrist caused the bike to madly vibrate like a bed you'd find in a cheap hotel that charges by the hour. Even so, it pulled like a truck from idle in 1st all the way up to shit my pants in 6th. Seriously, applying throttle in 6th on the Diavel pulled like I was in 3rd or 4th on my Multi.

To answer your question though, at low RPM's under little to no load, the bike behaved smoother than my tuneboy flashed 2014 Multi GT. However any application of the throttle caused the bike to vibrate enough to loosen fillings.

 

[VinceS]

Monster-ous (not) Re-Panting Needs

I did test ride an XDiavelS on the weekend. ...it pulled like a truck from idle in 1st all the way up to shit my pants in 6th.

Lucky b, at 4 weeks prior to the NDR I was too late to score that so had to settle for the 797 in Monster and Scrambler cafe racer form. Still, it was nice to have a couple of bikes to 'ride 'em like I stole 'em' (just have to know how to fudge the 'test ride' conditions... > ). The 797 would be a useful starter motor for the XDiavelS! I didn't venture under 3k, something I realised later as I should have checked for smoothness down low, to see if it was sorted on this engine. Ah well. The Monster is the so called 'woman's bike'. It is too flighty and a few other things, and honestly the Scrambler cafe racer was better to ride in every regard than the Monster, something I wouldn't have expected. So that is what I will recommend people have a serious look at if they're interested in baby Monsters.

However any application of the throttle caused the bike to vibrate enough to loosen fillings.

Rightio, back 'on thread', and the whole point. Rapid Bike et al make ecu modifiers for these too, and I'll just bet you would get a much smoother quicker ride right up to SMP x 2 with one fitted!

 

[DaveK]

The RB kit also allows you to mod redline up 1krpm... not sure if that's a good idea or not... my halfrings were already deformed at the last desmo service, not sure even more valvetrain stress is a great idea.