2008 S4RS Arrow/Nemesis Dyno Results
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3,032 Posts
Any before graph?
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1,088 Posts
Map Details?
Hello, Robb
Do you know if your Nemesis map included any ignition alterations?
I'm going to have my Nemesis equipped '02 ST4S (996) on the dyno in a week or so and it's pretty much uncharted water, so I'm trying to feel my way through.
Thanks for the charts.
Hello, Robb
Do you know if your Nemesis map included any ignition alterations?
I'm going to have my Nemesis equipped '02 ST4S (996) on the dyno in a week or so and it's pretty much uncharted water, so I'm trying to feel my way through.
Thanks for the charts.
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488 Posts
Ignition Alterations...
Guido,
Sorry I'm not sure I understand your question - the Nemesis does change how my bike starts; before I would just hit the ignition button once - with the Nemesis I have to hold it down. I think this is because the Nemesis offers a 'rain map' where you hold down the ignition while the engine's running and it reverts to a reduced HP map. I used it in a high country snow storm this past summer - it worked great.
I was in the shop this week and asked the guys if they could adjust the map to give me a little smoother initial/on/off thottle response - they said it's a cinch - they'll write the map and to just bring it back and see if I like it. This is what's great about the Nemesis - it offers a great deal of flexibility - it's a true custom ECU. By comparison the DP ECU is more of a Power Commander type product...
rob
Guido,
Sorry I'm not sure I understand your question - the Nemesis does change how my bike starts; before I would just hit the ignition button once - with the Nemesis I have to hold it down. I think this is because the Nemesis offers a 'rain map' where you hold down the ignition while the engine's running and it reverts to a reduced HP map. I used it in a high country snow storm this past summer - it worked great.
I was in the shop this week and asked the guys if they could adjust the map to give me a little smoother initial/on/off thottle response - they said it's a cinch - they'll write the map and to just bring it back and see if I like it. This is what's great about the Nemesis - it offers a great deal of flexibility - it's a true custom ECU. By comparison the DP ECU is more of a Power Commander type product...
rob
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1,088 Posts
Hello, Robb
Yeah, I was wondering if you had any mod's to the ignition timing that is controlled by the ECU. The DP ECU doesn't really allow any mod's like that, what you get is what you get, both in the fuel and ignition mapping.
The Nemesis, on the other hand, allows almost infinite mod's to both parameters, and to each cylinder independantly.
The PC III only allows mod's to the fuel mapping.
Just wondering if you knew any details about the re-mapping that was done to yours. Basic maps are just fuel-only, a more advanced map will encompass some juggling of the ignition advance/retard curves, especially if there are high-compression pistons, turbo/super charging, etc. involved. Probably the "rain map" involves some ignition changes.
The guy I'm getting my dyno work done by is a Nemesis "virgin" (me too) so we're trying to get some real-world advice from those who know what works and doesn't work so much.
Thanks for any advice you can kick down....
Yeah, I was wondering if you had any mod's to the ignition timing that is controlled by the ECU. The DP ECU doesn't really allow any mod's like that, what you get is what you get, both in the fuel and ignition mapping.
The Nemesis, on the other hand, allows almost infinite mod's to both parameters, and to each cylinder independantly.
The PC III only allows mod's to the fuel mapping.
Just wondering if you knew any details about the re-mapping that was done to yours. Basic maps are just fuel-only, a more advanced map will encompass some juggling of the ignition advance/retard curves, especially if there are high-compression pistons, turbo/super charging, etc. involved. Probably the "rain map" involves some ignition changes.
The guy I'm getting my dyno work done by is a Nemesis "virgin" (me too) so we're trying to get some real-world advice from those who know what works and doesn't work so much.
Thanks for any advice you can kick down....
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488 Posts
Nemesis ECU
Guido,
You're way ahead of me technically speaking - I'm sorry - I don't know the details but I do know that the Nemesis ECU can control ignition advance/retard based on the rain and 'wet' maps. Brian Sharp and JP at Boulder Motorsports have done numerous Nemesis installs - I think 7 of their race bikes are using the Nemesis and I know the Nemesis techs have visited the shop on 2 occasions. They're really nice guys - I would bet they'd be willing to answer questions and be something of a resource for you.
rob
Guido,
You're way ahead of me technically speaking - I'm sorry - I don't know the details but I do know that the Nemesis ECU can control ignition advance/retard based on the rain and 'wet' maps. Brian Sharp and JP at Boulder Motorsports have done numerous Nemesis installs - I think 7 of their race bikes are using the Nemesis and I know the Nemesis techs have visited the shop on 2 occasions. They're really nice guys - I would bet they'd be willing to answer questions and be something of a resource for you.
rob
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1,278 Posts
I think the one-button start thing is like what the superbikes have, you just press the button and the bike will keep turning over until it starts. The Nemesis looses that function I believe. The second map is started by pressing the start button when the engine is running. Great post - good to see the effect of installing a Nemesis on its own.
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3,032 Posts
You won't find a better shop to install a Nemesis - several of the maps directly from Nemesis were created by Brian and JP.
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1,088 Posts
Brian Sharp is the wizard who dyno-tuned my OEM ECU in my '03 ST4S when he was at AMS near Dallas. Not only a wealth of info but a magnificent guy to deal with. My bike never ran better.
I'm glad to hear he's doing well in his own shop, he certainly deserves to be.
I may toss a lifeline his way if I get stumped!
Thanks for the tip.
I'm glad to hear he's doing well in his own shop, he certainly deserves to be.
I may toss a lifeline his way if I get stumped!
Thanks for the tip.
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488 Posts
Nemesis ECU
I feel lucky to lucky to have access to a shop like Boulder Motorsports - it's rare to find people who really excel at what they do - and are just good guys to deal with as well.
When I saw JP last week I asked him about correcting or normalizing the dyno results for altitude, his response was that while 130 RHP was the altitude adjusted results - the fact is that at sea level the number would still be slightly higher because it's hard to calculate for the impact of increased oxygen density - so maybe another 3-5 HP if tested at seal level.
One other item I left out is that I am using the stock airbox - which if modified would produce another few HP.
At first I missed being able to just hit the start button once and the engine would crank until it started - but it's really not an issue to hold it down to achieve the same thing. The upside of course is the rain map - which is activated by holding the start button down while the engine is running.
The bike runs great; meaning it's got power all over the place, it sounds fantastic - no popping, etc., and it still get's very good MPG - mid/low 40s on commuting and very high 40s on the hwy. It has no 'bad habits' and even in really bad weather (rain & snow showers) it's civil with a steady throttle hand. I like the fact that acceleration is linear - and while extremely fast - it's very smooth and predictable.
I hope I answered all the questions/comments and that this helpful. I know I was pretty early on the whole Nemesis thing and it was very hard for me to find much on the combination of the Arrow full system with the Nemesis. I really like both products and wanted anyone interested to know that there is a good alternative to the DP ECU/Termigioni solution. Not that there's anything wrong with that...
I feel lucky to lucky to have access to a shop like Boulder Motorsports - it's rare to find people who really excel at what they do - and are just good guys to deal with as well.
When I saw JP last week I asked him about correcting or normalizing the dyno results for altitude, his response was that while 130 RHP was the altitude adjusted results - the fact is that at sea level the number would still be slightly higher because it's hard to calculate for the impact of increased oxygen density - so maybe another 3-5 HP if tested at seal level.
One other item I left out is that I am using the stock airbox - which if modified would produce another few HP.
At first I missed being able to just hit the start button once and the engine would crank until it started - but it's really not an issue to hold it down to achieve the same thing. The upside of course is the rain map - which is activated by holding the start button down while the engine is running.
The bike runs great; meaning it's got power all over the place, it sounds fantastic - no popping, etc., and it still get's very good MPG - mid/low 40s on commuting and very high 40s on the hwy. It has no 'bad habits' and even in really bad weather (rain & snow showers) it's civil with a steady throttle hand. I like the fact that acceleration is linear - and while extremely fast - it's very smooth and predictable.
I hope I answered all the questions/comments and that this helpful. I know I was pretty early on the whole Nemesis thing and it was very hard for me to find much on the combination of the Arrow full system with the Nemesis. I really like both products and wanted anyone interested to know that there is a good alternative to the DP ECU/Termigioni solution. Not that there's anything wrong with that...
nothing is better than the DPecu and a power commander dialed in on a dyno. there is no flexibility because it is perfect
Rob,
thanks very much for the extra details. I'm particularly interested to hear you are still running the full airbox and that you are getting fuel mileage pretty close to the stock bike - plus all that torque and great rideability.
Sounds like a Nemesis ECU could be in my future - tho I will likely hold out for an Akra pipe.
Only thing that bothers me about the Nemesis is I believe the headlamp doesn't switch off when cranking the engine to start it - just a matter of replacing the battery a bit earlier, I suppose. (Bikes over here have headlamps hard-wired on - there's no off switch.)
Again, greatly appreciate your posts on this.
thanks very much for the extra details. I'm particularly interested to hear you are still running the full airbox and that you are getting fuel mileage pretty close to the stock bike - plus all that torque and great rideability.
Sounds like a Nemesis ECU could be in my future - tho I will likely hold out for an Akra pipe.
Only thing that bothers me about the Nemesis is I believe the headlamp doesn't switch off when cranking the engine to start it - just a matter of replacing the battery a bit earlier, I suppose. (Bikes over here have headlamps hard-wired on - there's no off switch.)
Again, greatly appreciate your posts on this.
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Good results
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Arrow/Nemesis
To the best of my knowledge the headlight doesnt operate any differently with the Nemesis ECU than it did with the Ducati OEM ECU. Mine cranks about twice before it starts. Our (US) headlights are hard-wired as well.
hope that helps...
rob
Moronic,
To the best of my knowledge the headlight doesnt operate any differently with the Nemesis ECU than it did with the Ducati OEM ECU. Mine cranks about twice before it starts. Our (US) headlights are hard-wired as well.
hope that helps...
rob
Thank you.
The stock ECU (and I am assuming the DP version also) switches off the headlight when you press the starter button. Just to cut the load on the battery. The S4Rs doesn't seem like it's an easy bump-start, so any help the battery gets is welcome.
I was under the impression the Nemesis doesn't do that.
It's not a big issue. Don't know why I mentioned it.
I suppose I was thinking that failure to start would arrive a bit more abruptly if the battery had to power the light as well, but for all I know it's the opposite. Probably does mean more frequent battery replacement tho.
The stock ECU (and I am assuming the DP version also) switches off the headlight when you press the starter button. Just to cut the load on the battery. The S4Rs doesn't seem like it's an easy bump-start, so any help the battery gets is welcome.
I was under the impression the Nemesis doesn't do that.
It's not a big issue. Don't know why I mentioned it.
I suppose I was thinking that failure to start would arrive a bit more abruptly if the battery had to power the light as well, but for all I know it's the opposite. Probably does mean more frequent battery replacement tho.
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That is a nice looking torque curve
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