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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys. Need to pick your brains.

I have 2004 S4R with 6K on the odo and I just changed the belts. The bike ran and started perfectly for about a month after I changed the belts. Now it start but sometimes I have to push the starter button 2 to 3 times. Also now it seems like there is loss of power at low rpms and then it surges to normal power as I get to 3.5 - 4k. Lastly when I am going slow, ie. turning around on the street, I get backfires to the carbs. Not very strong but kind of pops.

So question is. What can cause this problem? I looked at the belts and they seem to be tight as they were after install. Any ideas?
 

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I can guarantee its not the carbs. Run some Seafoam through it. When is the last time you 1) adjusted valves 2) changed plugs 3) cleaned the air filter ?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I can guarantee its not the carbs. Run some Seafoam through it. When is the last time you 1) adjusted valves 2) changed plugs 3) cleaned the air filter ?
Thanks for quick reply.

When I changed the belts I did the filter and new spark plugs. The valves were not adjusted and I changed the mapping to muffled Arrows since I installed the baffles into my racing Arrows. What about throttle bodies being out of sync?
 

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Are you up to date on valve adjustment ? Valves with insufficient clearance can cause this. Did it run fine with this re map or is this when things went south ? Do a compression check. The Seafoam may take some running to clean things if that's the problem. I'd also try a different fuel source just in case.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Are you up to date on valve adjustment ? Valves with insufficient clearance can cause this. Did it run fine with this re map or is this when things went south ? Do a compression check. The Seafoam may take some running to clean things if that's the problem. I'd also try a different fuel source just in case.
I have PCIII and the bike ran fine after the reflash. There also are no shavings on the oil screen at all. When I flashed the new map it was Euro map since there was no US map available for S4R with full baffled arrows. Can that be the cause? But why suddenly and after one month running great?

I get gas at a Shell station with high traffic so I don't think it's the gas.

I 'll run few cans of Seafoam and I'll get the valves adjusted and let them do compression test. I'll post the results.

It's just weird as I thought first that maybe one of the tensioners got loose on the belts but it seems that's not the cause.
 

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If it ran fine after the new tune I doubt that's the cause. If you are going to pay for a valve adjustment you may as well let them diagnose the issue. Don't overdo the Seafoam.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I think I am getting paranoid about this issue but here's my question;

When I changed the belts I followed instructions and all went well, however when I was putting the belt on the horizontal cylinder one of the cams slipped one turn. I am pretty sure that I twisted it back but just in case. Would the engine work within parameters of the cam being one rotation off?
 

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If it was exactly one complete turn it would be back were it started and wouldn't matter, but one tooth off and bad things can happen. Even though I doubt it would have run fine like that you really need to verify cam position. I don't think you're paranoid, or at least your paranoia has a basis in reality.
 

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Weird that it just started. But also sounds like it could be a little lean in the low rpms. Hard starting, popping.

Ex: My 900ss used to have intake pop around 3-4K rpm especially if trying to hold steady throttle. Increasing the low speed fuel mixture got rid of it.

Just an idea.
 

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Have you thought about taking a step backward and remove your baffles and re-flash the old map back into it? It seems like these were the changes you've made to the fuelling and now your'e having problems with the fuelling. I realise it ran fine for a month before anything went haywire but for me it'd be worth a try to see if it makes a change to the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I am 100% it's not one tooth of as it was one full rotation. So that's not it then.

The lean mixture sound about right. In low rpms it seems the engine is bogging down and has a throaty sound. Then suddenly I get full power but then again it peaks and it won't rev beyond 7 - 8K rpms and there is again loss of power. I am running seafoam in the gas right now and it actually got worse. Truth be told the bike was on stands for almost two years when I was going through some family problems. It may be that the fuel system and carb is gunked up. But why would it run fine since this spring and then for another month after belt change?

I will take the baffles off and will reflash the old map that was dyno tuned for full race Arrows and open air box. Will see if this could possibly be the map. Should take 10 min. I will post the results.

Thanks guys for your quick help.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Sorry for the late reply, I was quite busy applying Leatherique treatment to my car's leather seats. It turned out a lot more labor intensive than I expected but The stuff works miracles. So I think I solved the problem.

First I did remove the baffles and flashed the 710-004 map back. Still the same problem.

I then cleaned the throttle bodies and washed and reoiled my K&N filter. Wow, the bike started right up and had more power, but it still occassionally backfired into carbs in low rpms and I still had that momentary no power hickup when opening throttle.

So I got full tank of gas and put in Berrymans B12 Carb cleaner/Fuel treatment in 1.oz for each 1 gallon of gas. It did improve the hesitation but did not solve it completely.

I also noticed that my S4R is idling at around 950 rpm which is below the specs that recommend 1200 to 1400 rpm idle. As one of you pointed out this may be a part of the problem because from that low idle the engine momentarily bogs down when throttle is opened.

So here's what I am going to do next;

I ordered aerosol Seafoam and will put it through the intakes. That should get rid of any grime or deposits that are left deeper in the intake runners.

Then I will drop the bike at the dealer and will let them adjust the valves and dyno tune new map. That should solve the low idle problem and maximize power output.

So thanks a lot guys, as usual you are the best. I have not been around lately as my personal life was quite taxing the last few years, but I now have the energy to ride back and nothing is better than nice spirited ride on Sunday morning. So thanks again.
 

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Wish you the best in life and bike.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
OK bringing this thread back from dead. The issue is back and so I went and got ELM327 with the Lancia cable and ScanM5X app that scans the Marelli M59 ECU. I got four codes.

P0105 - Manifold Absolute Pressure / Barometric Pressure Circuit Malfunction - Low Input

P0110 - Intake Air Temperature Circuit Malfunction - High Input

P0560 - System Voltage Malfunction - Low Input (may be when I disconnected battery?)

P0335 Crankshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Malfunction - No Signal

Can anybody more skilled chime in? My guess is that the Crankshaft Pos Sensor went bad and that my Atm pressure/intake temp sensor also went bad (the one behind headlight). Am I right?

Thanks.
 

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Have you cleaned the connectors and verified the connections ? What has happened that would make multiple things go bad at the same time? Have you checked the voltage regulator ?
 

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clear the codes and see what comes back.

can you see the sensor input values, or is it just a scan tool for fault codes? if so, it's kind of useless.

no offence, but people who don't know what they're doing get caught up in the fault code thing, where you really need to know what info the ecu is getting from the sensors, if that info is valid and if not, why. it's really very rare for sensors to give issues.

get something like the guzzidiag / iawdiag or a technoresearch tool and get some numbers.

i doubt valve clearances could be causing the miss, unless they're really bad. i'd start with the fuel filter, then set it up (balance, idle mixture) and see what happens.

i apologise if i'm wrong, but i'm assuming you mean it has a std ecu and you're "reflashing" the pc3? usually, to people on this site, reflashing means the ecu, the pc3 you load different maps into. makes it easier to understand what you are actually doing. the issue with pc3 maps is that they depend on the ecu under them and how well (or not) the bike that map was made on was set up before hand. that's the biggest variable. pc3 allowed people with no idea how to set them up to tune them, but it means the maps they generated are usually worthless to anyone else.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Thanks guy for your help. Here's the situation. I cleared the codes and tried to run the bike but it won't run. I turn the ignition on, I hear the fuel pump priming, and then when I try to start the bike it either won't start, or it starts and runs rough for about 10 seconds and dies. Doing this I did not get any codes yet but am not sure that the ECU has time to queue the system in such a short time.

I traced the wiring and found out that the plug to the atm press/temp sensor behind headlight was not fully plugged. I sprayed some electronics cleaner fluid on the connector and plugged it back until it clicked. In spring I installed CF headlight bucket and rerouted some of the wires behind so that was the cause. So the P0105 and P0110 should be taken care of.

The low voltage code I'm sure is from last spring when my battery was going dead and had to replace it. That shall eliminate the P0560.

So that leaves P0335 the crankshaft position sensor. I found some threads on here and other forums where the crank pos sensor went bad. In one of the threads there was an advice to see if the sensor is clean??? I also traced the wiring and noticed that the rubber boot of the plug branching from the main harness had the boot rotten and falling apart but the wires are OK. One interesting fact is that when the bike was still rideable that it was bogging down in low RpMs but once I fully opened the throttle and the RpMs went over 6K the bike took off like a bat out of hell. Does this have any connection to faulty CPS?

Brad I will get new fuel filter and new intake pump intake screen it probably needs it anyway since the bike is 12 years old now. How difficult is it to install?

Brad you are right. I was loading maps to PCIII and not ECU. My mistake in terms. Problem was that the latest PCIII software I D/L requires to have the newest FW on the PCIII. The PCIII got corrupted when I tried to load the map. I needed PCIII programmer to update the PCIII as my FW was too old to do it without it. I got it and the problem is solved now. I also have VAG-COM for my VAG cars so I am familiar with logging data in order to determine what is really going on if code is kicked out. The map I have was developed for this bike when I put the racing Arrows and opened the airbox in 2006. I was trying to load the Dynojet map 710-004 which is for the titanium baffled pipes and open airbox with K&N.

I also sealed the Arrows with silicone hi-temp seal. I noticed there was a small leak on the X-pipe so no air can be sucked back now.

So guys what's your advice? Is there a way to clean it first and see if it helps? Do I have to drain oil to clean it? Or should I go and buy new CPS? Thx
 

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Discussion Starter #19
OK disregard the above as it may be a moot point. I cleared the codes then tried to run the bike. It would start and run for about 10 sec and die.

Went to garage couple of hour later, started the bike and managed to get it going to around 7K RpMs. The bogging cleared to almost nothing but when I let go off the throttle the bike died and backfired two times to the exhaust.

I ran the ScanM5X and none of the old codes came back so far but got new code;

U1600: Immobilizer - Invalid Signal; Warning lamp on

However the immobilizer light was off. Is there a way to reset the immobilizer? I have the red key.

Where is the immobilizer located? I installed GPS tracker into the instrument bucket so I can track the bike if it gets stolen. It has voltage stepper 12V to 6V in the same space. Would that influence the immobilizer? I had the bogging problems quite while before I installed the tracker.

PS: It's a Trackimo GPS tracker. It comes with international 3G SIM card and works anywhere in the world where 3G cell signal is available. First year is free and then $5 per month / $60 per year.
 

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If the immobilizer is engaged, it won't start, period.

When I had a bad CPS I had no spark--none, zero. But I have seen at least one guy who had a bad CPS and had poor running.
 
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