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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So, finally it's my turn in the frying basket. And it's starting to hurt.

I may have induced this problem by pressing on the wiring below the dashboard area because my IMMO light did not blink when it should. Sometimes it would blink after shutting it off (which is normal), sometimes not. But this never seemed to interfere with starting and running. Also, my Electroluminescent (EL) panel (for gas level, engine temp, and time) has been off more than on. Lately, it would come on when I hit a bump just right. Along with the low fuel light. That would illuminate, and then the panel would turn on. And low fuel light would go off if the gas level was good.

Neither of these (IMMO or readout panel) affected the running or starting, but it was rather annoying. And knowing that folks have problems with connections and such...

...I went exploring. I had it running and I reached down along the left front fork to touch and flex the harness near the EL panel, to see if I could force it to come on. That bundle didn't seem to do anything, but then I started tapping and pushing on other parts of the haness(es). At that time, I heard the engine stumble a bit. The 20 mile ride from my GF house to mine was the most awful run I've ever had. Bucking, turning off, coming on, tach diving towards zero when cutting out (spark?) etc. I wasn't sure I'd get there, but it made it. Kinda needed to, because my tools are there.

And now, I cannot get the engine to start while it's cranking. The starter cranks the engine over like normal, but it seems that when it fires, it only does this momentarily. It just pops and "tries", but just once in a few revolutions of the engine (you can pretty much count the compression strokes going by), and continued cranking will give you another "try", but just one fire attempt.

I thought it might be trying on just one cylinder. So I started checking things. Like the big connector. Expected to see green, but it's pristine. Even looking at the bottom connector inside the boot - it's clean.

I unplugged the antenna for the IMMO, and the bike won't even crank the starter (which I think is normal).

I checked the fuel tank - no abnormal rushing noises to indicate a split line.
Then the injectors. The rear one, for sure, squirts fuel at WOT (to see). Front one is very difficult to see into, but I've seen vapor come back up if it coughed while attempting a start. I double checked by adding some fuel down the front intake and then trying. No change.
And the intake valves are visibly moving in both cylinders.
Spark - Checked one cyl. at a time. Seems strong when I checked, but almost not as constant as I would have thought. Seems to wait for several compression strokes, then if I see spark, it's when the engine fires on the other cyl. that still has it's plug connected.
This also showed me that each cylinder is indeed firing and trying.
R&R + cleaned the CPS (Timing pickup) . No change
Disconnected battery & unplugged and reconnected the ECU (and battery). No change.

Pressure on harness still makes things whacky - EL panel will extinguish or turn on, along with the low fuel light. Also the IMMO light may go out when it should be blinking. And when I had the EL panel functioning with the pressure on the harness, I tried starting it, but there's no change in the way it fires once.

I'm beginning to wonder if the 59M ECU is gone wonky? Intermittent spark?
Is it possible for these things to do this? I would have thought that if the ECU fails spark, it's all or nothing.

I've been doing a lot of reading in here about the ECU's and I see that the 59M are not the most reliable? And that there are spark issues associated with these?
I also see that they're like hen's teeth now. But I also see that the 5AM can be substituted?
I've looked at entries by Impulsive_Duc, bradblack, vij, and others. VERY talented folks here, mind you!
Here's one string that leaves me with a bit of hope:
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/42-monster/434105-s4r-996-ecu-59m-5am-interchangablility.html

So, if I have a problem with spark, will my ECU have an error code(s) stored that I could verify? Mike Lukason has offered to come over to my garage to connect his cables and computer to my diag port. THANK MIKE !!! We just need to come up with a weekend that works.

I really hate to have my favorite bike "down". Luckily I have backup, but it's a different brand - not as exciting as our DUCs (IMHO).

I have yet to look at:
TPS?
Air temp?
Coolant temp?
Barometer?

Sorry about the length. If you have any other ideas, please let me know. Also, would a 5AM from "any" Ducati be swapped in and just start my bike? I realize that I'd need a map to get it drive-able, Just wondering if it would start at low throttle openings? Or would I need one with a DP map and IMMO delete?
 

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I am certainly no expert, and I have learned a lot from your posts, so take this for what it's worth. Anyway, it almost sounds like a broken or frayed wire inside the harness itself. Those can be a real pain to find, though. Hope you figure it out, and please let us know what fixes it.
 

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Mr Leakered
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The story that I remember is that the ECUs will fail on one cylinder first before completely dying. Kind of odd, but I think that was posted a few times.

For whatever reason with electrical stuff, I tend to encounter multiple failures at once. You noted that you were pressing on connectors, but the problem has me thinking CPS? Either dirty or on its way out.

Also on the multi-fail line of thought, how about swapping relays?

Have a good one.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
SWIFT:
Glad to have helped! And yes, I started slicing into the master harness that goes vertically down towards the "big connector". This is where I can induce a good EL screen and/or the IMMO light behaving our extinguished. It's lovely to see mid harness splices and also wires that have been cut (right from the factory!) NOT.

Still working my way to the bottom part of this harness.

Interesting note: I notice that the Baro/air temp sender is wired directly to the ECU. The wire physically goes past the big connector! Same with the H2O temp, TPS, and timing pick-up. So it seems that the critical "ga-zintas" are connected right to the ECU harness, which is a good thing!

I'm not convinced that the IMMO goes to ECU directly or not.

The IMMO was my initial suspicion, since it either flashes normally, or not at all. But flexing the harness in the troubled area gives me no change to the way this beast is behaving.

I think Mike L. mentioned he has a "bad" ECU from his ST3. He had some issues at some point and had Seacoast put in a new one. Maybe I'll try his 5AM to see if it'll at least give me consistent spark.

TONY:
I R&R'd the CPS, and wiped it clean. There was a slight amount of "silver sludge" on it when I wiped it. It also seemed very strong, magnetically.

And I seem to have good power to the fuel pump and the coils (same relay powers both).
 
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I have the original ECU out of my 03 ST4s if you want to try it. It was fine when I took it out, only replaced for a race map ECU. There may be an issue with the IMMO pairing, however. Mine was paired, I'm sure. It was the factory unit.
 

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Given your indications, I'd be pretty suspicious of that wiring harness behind the dash. If intermittent wiring to the IMMO circuit was the culprit, I could see possibly the spark, and what ever else it interrupts, causing your problem. Once the bike is running I don't know what the IMMO circuit does, if anything, but it may still function... Member nine16 parted that 03 ST4s for his 851 project. Maybe he still has some harness items laying around.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I have the original ECU out of my 03 ST4s if you want to try it. It was fine when I took it out, only replaced for a race map ECU. There may be an issue with the IMMO pairing, however. Mine was paired, I'm sure. It was the factory unit.
Wow Dan, thanks for the offer! I suspect that the IMMO mismatch will be an issue in the long run, but I'll keep UR offer in mind! I'll probably have similar issues with Mike L's 5AM ST3 ECU.

I just searched on CPS, and found a decent video put up by Punch, and will be TESTING my CPS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=XsTvKgWZxP4
 
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Discussion Starter #10
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Probably off case but my S4 will start during cranking with the kill switch engaged and die immediately after stopping cranking. Remote chance your kill circuit has a short in the harness?

If it was an ECU problem, not sure how mobbing harness around would impact.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Probably off case but my S4 will start during cranking with the kill switch engaged and die immediately after stopping cranking. Remote chance your kill circuit has a short in the harness?

If it was an ECU problem, not sure how mobbing harness around would impact.
Thanks jahjah. I believe my kill switch is functioning properly -- When I switch it to "kill", I cannot crank the starter at all. But anything is possible.

I figured if I can make things be right or wrong with pressure/ no pressure on the harness, that this might be able to make things right intermittently between say, the IMMO and the ECU.

Most electrical gremlins don't scare me, but this one has me pretty stumped so far. And scary Halloween is coming!!!

The other bad thing is that I'm going to be gone over the w/e, so I won't be able to spend a whole bunch of time on it.
 

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I just searched on CPS, and found a decent video put up by Punch, and will be TESTING my CPS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=XsTvKgWZxP4
Having just gone through CPS hell, my guess is that it's not your problem or perhaps yours is failing in a different way. I never had difficulties with starting, but it would tach-drop-to-zero die while underway. It would restart immediately, but cut off as rpm was increased. As it cooled down, the cut off would happen at a progressively higher rpm.

The AC test in your video link makes sense and I wish I'd known about it for a new/old comparison between the two CPSs, but I bet my old bad one would pass since it always started.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
@Stick...I have a spare CPS unit we can try too.
Kewl, Mike! We'll have to make a rainy weekend meet-up at my house. Has to be raining, cuz otherwise, Annie and I will probably be riding (me on a Goose!).

HiFlite:

Read your other thread, and looked at the eBay CPS that you bought. It's got 2 ears/holes for mounting, where the ST4s has only one. Not sure it would fit the ST4s. It's a very close fit when extracting and replacing...

Also note that that video showing the AC voltage -- it's from a car. I would expect to see "something" AC-wise on our bikes, but maybe not that voltage that they showed.
 

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ok def gonna follow this thread since this is exactly the behavior my '02 ST4s exhibited ...a year ago... when I last rode it. Was running great at about 70mph, then just started missing, bucking, dying, then full-on, then bucking, missing, then full-on, then dying... etc. Had to pin throttle just to keep it lit so I could get it home. it was enough to almost throw me off in the turns. Disgusted, I parked it and now ride my 1198 instead.

Over many weeks' worth of spare time, I went thru all the same troubleshooting items as you except opening the loom, and replacing black boxes/sensors/ECU. I already bypassed the kill switch as an experiment. and the sidestand switch had stranded me in the dark after Laguna Seca years ago and was excised with a pocket knife there and then to get home. Also checked fuel pressure before and after injectors, fresh fuel filter & lines replaced, usual relays jockeyed, spark present. Entire loom replaced.:crying:

Havent checked compression/leakdown, barometric/air temp sensor, H2O temp sensors, CPS, TPS, ignition and ECU due to lack of testing equipment. Its about to head to the shop for these items.

Will light a candle for you and follow your progress.
 

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Have you got the diagnostic software and wiring diagram?
If you have the software I would start there, get any fault codes and monitor critical sensors whilst cranking. In particular you want to see rpm signal from crank angle sensor and manifold pressure.
Hopefully software will also give you immobilizer on off indication.
This will then give you a direction for further investigation.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks Bucky and Turbo,

A local friend (Mike L) has SW to connect to my diag port. Just need to get an evening or afternoon with his availability. He even has an ST3 ECU AND a CPS. And I do have a schematic...

Along with the cranking, I've noticed an occasional explosion out of the exhaust. Downright LOUD ! And seeing others noticed explosions when excessive spacing of the CPS was used, I'm gonna place my bet on the CPS.

I did get a few minutes to "measure" mine on Friday. It was around 800 Ohms, and when I cranked, it gave me about 0.5 VAC. Almost undetectable. Used 2 different meters to see this. An Analog meter, and a DVM. The DVM's lowest range was 0 to 200VAC, so I was questioning the low reading, but the analog meter verified 0.5 VAC.

An note that this is just a relative reading, because these meters normally measure RMS AC values. And this is just a "spike" type wave that comes outta the 2 wires. But at least it's a value. And it anyone want's to verify with their bike, the connector is above the battery area, tie-wrapped to the frame. It's easy to get to, once the fairing is off (ha-ha!!!).

Curious to see what value I see with Mike L's "spare" CPS, and to see if it'll allow my engine to run!
 
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Discussion Starter #20
So, last night, Mike L. and I got together with his bag of tricks. Too bad we had no treats! Maybe we were a day late?

We swapped in his "spare" CPS. Same initial readings--800 ohms. Made NO improvement to the way it attempts to start.

He connected his diagnostic set-up to my OBD port. It connected right away! It was great, because we were able to VERIFY a clean TPS, both air and water temp, and the barometric pressure. All looked good and convinced me that these devices WORK and are connected properly to the FI brain (the ECU).
And he checked the Fan function, and we checked the injectors. Both inj. are working. Cute tiny pulses that the program initiates!

Too bad the CPS made no difference. At least it's "one less thing to buy". as most folks just start replacing stuff.

Then we swapped in his 5AM ECU. Note that the ST4s has a 59. And his ST3 has CAN bus, where the 2003 does not. Screw it, we did it anyway. No smoke during key-on. Heard the fuel pump 2 second thing. But no start attempt, because of the mismatch to the IMMO.

So to try to cheat it, I unplugged the solenoid, and hotwired it. Key-ON, then I cranked via hot-wires. No attempt at spark or whatever. We verified that there was no spark during this attempt with his 5AM ECU. So most likely IMMO mis-match still.

I did show Mike the spark of 1 cyl. at-a-time, while my IAM59 ECU was still connected.
It kinda goes:
spark-spark-spark, then nothing nothing nothing, then repeat, as we crank the starter.
And when we see the spark-spark-spark, that's when the other cyl. that still has its plug connected "kicks" - making an attempt to spark. It seems it misses several compression strokes when we see the nothing nothing nothing (lack of spark). Both CPS's behaved this way. Both V and H cylinders seem to fire when we see the spark at the other cylinder.

So we're still stumped. BTW, his 5AM ECU is "defective". The dealer that replaced it claimed it was dumping in too much fuel at idle. I just wanted to see if it would give my engine a bit of life!

So I guess I'm in the market for a 59 ECU, or a 5AM - with the intention of having it re-mapped for an ST4s. And in either case, getting rid of the IMMO function.

Also, I still need to dig in deep on the big harness that seems to induce issues with my small EL panel, and the IMMO light. BTW, I showed Mike how I can induce the EL panel "to life", and we tried this while cranking to see if it made any improvement, but it did not.

The saga continues...and she's still kicking my ass!!! But we're getting closer.

Mike, go ahead and fill in anything I might have left out. And tell them where to get the most unique pizza - Insalada !! YUM
 
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