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Discussion Starter #1
I have a thread going in the ST area. Pretty sure my 59M ECU is bad. I'm probably going to purchase a used 5AM ECU and I will be needing to disable the IMMO function in the 5AM ECU.

How is this accomplished? I've searched and read several threads that say it's "done all the time" , but I have not seen a procedure. I prefer not to need to send the ECU to Houston SBK....
I assume it's more than just pushing a new fuel map into the 5AM.

Where does this function reside, and how can I go about turning it off?

I am planning to get the cabling and SW to do this.
What's better -- IAW5X Reader and Writer
or
GuzziDiag set of SW?

Also, to edit fuel maps, do I need TuneECU or something similar?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
OK, let's put this one on hold until I hit issues. I located a decent thread in this section searching on just "immobilizer".
Just purchased a 5AM ECU on eBay. Need to locate my diagnostic cables that I purchased and never used, from about 5 years ago!
 

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In the absence of any responses

This is purely from memory, no experience at all.

Try this link for info.

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/42-monster/434105-s4r-996-ecu-59m-5am-interchangablility.html

For editing maps and more, Tunerpro is brilliant.
The main thing is that there needs to be an XDF for your bike/ECU and the location of the immobiliser flag (on or off) known.

Did the ST4S ever have a 5AM ECU and hence a bin file to suit?

I will see if I can find the posts as above apart from the XDF as I can't remember seeing one, but then I have never looked.

PS - not malicious, but don't bother trying to contact Impulsive_Duc as he seems to have disappeared from the forum.
 

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Forgot to answer the SW question.

Use the IAW versions.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks, Punch!

I did find the cable and Bluetooth adapter that I bought. I verified that the red and black clip leads were correct for polarity. Plugged them into the bikes' diag plug. Powered the leads up, and the BT adapter lit its light. I was able to pair the BT unit to my PC (windows 7), but I could not get any of the IAWDiag, IAW5X Reader, Writer SW to "see" any data. I also tried Guzzidiag, and this did not seem to "see in" either. Of course the GuzziDiag did not have a 59M ECU in its list of Guzzi bikes...

Oh, the ST4s came with 59M only, to my knowledge and research. And that link you pointed me to is the inspiration to try to replace it with a 5AM ECU. I just got one in the mail today (from eBay).

Too bad about Impulsive_Duc not being around here any more. I was hoping to pick his brain. When I have real issues, I'll be asking more questions.

Regarding the "needs to be an XDF for your bike/ECU" -- Where do these files come from? Are they copied from existing ECUs, or are these XDF files written by someone?
All I know so far is that you need this to be able to "translate" the bin map file into something readable and sensible?
 

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Some questions I would ask myself.

Why use the ELM Bluetooth adapter rather than the Lonelec adapter with the FTDI (232) chip and connect to the diagnostic connector via a cable to the notebook/laptop?

Did you check/setup the comm port to then be able to select the correct one in IAW software.

With the ELM, maybe check this post for ideas.
https://www.grisoghetto.com/t2687-guzzidiag-to-ecu-comms-issue

In anything to do with IAW software, anything post by Beard, Beetle or pauldaytona should be treated as gospel.

This is a link to something I wrote a while back on datalogging. It has real life experiences of mine on setting things up.

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/241-tech-forum/517929-data-logging-mapping-info-questions-4.html#post5774025

XDFs are done by dudes with more knowledge, patience and desire to learn than I will ever have.
I mention XDFs in the guide in the link above.

They are a bit like having a recipe that refers to the top shelf, first jar on the right and two tablespoons of that, plus bottom shelf, third jar from the left with 50 grams..
Then expecting every cook to arrange their cupboards and ingredients exactly the same way.

In an ideal world, that would be the case.

The dudes that "create" XDFs are a bit like chefs that can do a taste test, to make sure what the ingredients are, whereas XDF creators are able to look for patterns/whatever and be able to establish that is a fuel map, this is the TP breakpoints, this is the RPM breakpoints, temperature correction table etc. etc.

I happen to have an XDF and bin file from I do not remember where. Using both these seemingly matching file names in Tunerpro.

Using the XDF, then loading the bin file shows values that are in some cases/tables incorrect.
I.e. the recipe/cupboard map is pointing to the wrong shelves and jar positions and hence contents required for the meal intended.

Happy to share the 5AM bin and XDF for you to look at, but I think it will need some work.

If you look at the guide in the datalogging thread, there is a link about Guzzidiag - there are instructions and cautions in that link.

Luckily for me and a few others I have helped, I have XDFs that work with the 15M A0 and A8 variants and their bin files, but forever grateful to whoever developed the XDFs.

There is another thread in the Tech forum that is titled ECU Repository or similar where I obtained XDFs and bin files.

Unfortunately it seems to have "died" and the repository (online database)
If it was mine, I would arrange it with a table that name/coded the XDF and which bikes/models/ECUs/whatever it is known by experience to work with.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hey, thanks again, Punch!
Some reasons I bought the BT adapter - relatively cheap, I liked the fact that one is not tethered to the diag harness, and flexibility - the fact that I might be able to use the PC, and maybe an android in the future...

Also thx for explanation about the XDFs. SW folks that create these. These folks deserve as much respect that I have for you, Bradblack, vij, mlukason, zeppo, jahjah, dspear99ca, Duckman, duck96cr, ducatimike, and ducvet to name a FEW !

And, I have read that string on putting the 5AM into a 59M bike, and that did give me hope and inspiration for trying the same. And, I read and have a copy of your:
Punch's guide to ScanST logging and modifying 21 April 2016

I also have a heck of at list of HEX files that I copied at some point in time. I believe they were is a zip file from Tuneecu.

So thanks for all your contributions and support.
 

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I liked the fact that one is not tethered to the diag harness, and flexibility - the fact that I might be able to use the PC, and maybe an android in the future.
I also had (well still have) that dream, but then I opted for something that worked out of the box.
Others, with more knowledge than me and way younger than me can sort the solution for us.

Also thx for explanation about the XDFs. SW folks that create these. These folks deserve as much respect that I have for Bradblack, vij, mlukason, zeppo, jahjah, dspear99ca, Duckman, duck96cr, ducatimike, and ducvet to name a FEW !
As with the names mentioned above, I like to pass on knowledge as far as I can in plain English.
Clear cut, no bullshit, this is what I know works or a caveat, try this it might provide an answer - no promises.
Meinholf for ideas/commentary on my data analysis , jduke, t_bare and Andreas by providing logged data and trusting my analysis and using new bin files from a guy that they do do not know.
Beard and pauldaytona for GuzziDiag etc. Meinholf has serious involvement as well.

Shit - this reads like an Oscar award speech!

It is a real shame that christian91, developer etc. of ScantST and is not participating/supporting anymore.

I must admit sometimes I am somewhat disappointed that forum members ask a question and do not provide feedback on the outcome, which would benefit of others.
It is not like we are making money out of this.
We are just trying to help as forum members, which is what forums are about IMO.

And, I have read that string on putting the 5AM into a 59M bike, and that did give me hope and inspiration for trying the same. And, I read and have a copy of your:
Punch's guide to ScanST logging and modifying 21 April 2016
It is possible - I have seen it done, but certainly not by me as in a 59M to 5AM for a Monster 620.
All I did was try to do a step by step of what worked for me with respect to ScanST

I also have a heck of at list of HEX files that I copied at some point in time. I believe they were is a zip file from Tuneecu.
Yes HEX files are from TuneECU.
I have used them for a couple of Triumphs and the bane of my life, a Benelli that had so many electrical/mechanical/design issues I swore I would never touch one again.
That was not for profit, just helping a mate.
The Benelli forum members were astoundingly helpful

I also post questions and I am very appreciative of the combined knowledge/experience that resides here.
Latterly this helped me make a decision on clutch options after weighing up the responses.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Latest update - I met with mlukason at his house to see if my Fiat cable and BT ELM adapter worked. Mike was able to pair with my BT, and use his android tablet with ScanM5x sw on it. He was able to see his ECU on his ST3 (using my cable).

Then we tried my PC. No luck. I can pair to the BT adapter, but not make any of the IAWDiag, GuzziDiag, IAWreader, etc to "see" his ECU.

Maybe I need to get an android? I see there are android emulators for Windows. I'm a but hesitant to install, because my PC runs very well now...

Maybe I'll give Yorik a PM to see what he's using...
 

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EDIT: Never mind what I wrote before (if you saw it). I just re-read your post and I suspect IAWDiag doesn't support BT from a PC.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yorik, Thank you!

I also suspect that I' need an Android device. Maybe with Santa's help?

-----------------------------
FWIW here's what Yorik replied to me in PM:

Hi Mike,

I've been using Scan M5x as well. I use it from my phone via bluetooth. I haven't gotten into the world of loading different maps yet. Maybe some day. If I do, from what I understand, I'll go with IAWDiag which is an offshoot of GuzziDiag.

I used to use DucatiDiag/JPDiag, but it was a hassle.

If you can't connect from your computer using a cable, I suspect the cable driver. This is why I gave up on DucatiDiag. Too many driver problems.
----------------------------------------------------
 

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Hey Stick...did we try your software on your PC with my USB cables? Or, did we just try the Bluetooth adapter with your computer?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
We only tried the BT. I didn't know you had the USB cable. I'll probably end up just buying one.
 

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We only tried the BT. I didn't know you had the USB cable. I'll probably end up just buying one.
You beat me to that suggestion!

Takes one thing out of the equation and is proven to work with the IAW suite and ScanST etc. as per my guide.

Unless you want to datalog via bluetooth to Android to save packing a notebook on the bike there is not much point IMO.
That then would need a WBO2 sensor to provide meaningful results - data is everything!
If all you need to do at the moment is read and write bin files, then USB with the correct FTDI chip is the way to go.
You MUST load the correct drivers before connecting the adapter to the USB port - this is the 99.9999% reason for problems combined with cheap online adapters with incorrect chips.

I love technology etc.
Had a really interesting example at work today where we were looking at virtual reality training "hands on" and had a discussion.
One question arose if the trainee could not access VR equipment, then it was suggested a VR based training video could be developed.
My response/question - why not just video the real thing?

Attachment goes towards explaining what I mean.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
So, I had a really interesting couple of sessions with my ST4s (and my Moto Guzzi Stelvio NTX)

I had purchased the recommended cables from Lonelec on Black Friday, and I received them this week. I'm running Widows 7, and their instructions recommended having Windows install the driver, so I did and it seemed to work.

I was able to use IAWdiag to check some of the inputs to the ECU (as mlukason had done for me). Then I used IAW5Xreader to download the bin file from my 59M ECU.

BTW, does it really take over 30 minutes to read a bin file? I think it's around 320Kb in size.

I also used the above on the NTX to play a bit. I really wanted to reset the service reminder on the dash, but I was unsuccessful there. But I did download its bin file. It happens to be a 5AM ECU (2013 model).

So then I figured that I'd plug the 5AM ECU that I purchased on ebay a few weeks back...it was from a 2008 Ducati Hypermotard 1100 S. The ad said that the owner replaced the stock one with an aftermarket ECU.

So this 5AM plugs in just like the 59M. ECUs look identical on the outside. Then it came time to use IAWdiag -- when I turned the key on, I heard the fuel pump "prime".
I thought this was weird, because when we tried mlukason's spare 5AM, it did nothing on my bike. But Mike did have this one replaced, as the diagnosing dealership said "it was bad", and they got him a new 5AM to replace it. So we figured it was either IMMO mismatch, or bad 5AM.

Anyway, for the heck of it, I hit the starter button, and my engine fired right up and idled! If the IMMO was normal, the start button should have done nothing. But I was pleased to hear my machine run after many months....

Maybe the gent I bought this 5AM from had the IMMO feature disabled? I have no idea if this has a custom map in it or not, but it is from a 2V hyper. I had a hunch that "any" of our DUC ECU's might allow my engine to run, and here's proof. I know that the fuel, timing and ?? maps are gonna need an overhaul, but to hear the engine come to life and purr was phenomenal!

So I am at liberty to send my bin files to anyone that might want. One from
1) my 2003 ST4s with 59M
2) from this 5AM in purchased from a 2008 HM S (seems to have IMMO ignored)
and
3) 2013 MG StelvioNTX

Now, some quick ???'s :

Does anyone have a bin file for a 5AM HW610 ECU that is running a 996 Desmoquattro engine? Like a 996 S4R, or a 996 whatever? Even a 748 running with a 5AM, where the map file would need tweaking?

Assuming I won't get this wish, how many things do I need to look at, and change, in the 5AM bin file, in an attempt to make my ST4s run proper? Things like: fuel map; timing map; red-line cut-off; etc?

How do I go about "looking" at my bin files?

Can someone look at the bin file from the 5AM ECU that I purchased to see if the IMMO is, indeed, disabled?

I'll place my bin files (above) in the ECU Maps Repository area in this Tech Forum.

Did I mention how great it is to hear the beast run again??!!!!!!
 
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The PDF attachment works with AbleDuc's HM 1100s and t_bare's.

Download an remove the .PDF and you have the XDF.
In this there are only 4 flags shown, being lambda 1, lambda 2, Immobiliser and exhaust valve.
I.e. nothing to reset service warning.

IAW Reader takes about 10 minutes on my 15M, which is 64kb, so 30 my guess is reasonable.
Suggest you go into power settings and disable display sleep and computer sleep when reading the ECU.

A mate has a couple of 996 but not sure what ECU etc. I will have a look but may not see him for a while and not sure if the bikes are in his shed or on loan.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks, Punch! I did disable sleep mode b4 connecting to the bike. I didn't want/need any surprises! I also had a decent charger hooked to the ST4s battery to keep it pumped, along with the headlight unplugged.

The Goose don't turn it's headlight on until the engine is running, so a small charger/maintainer there for that one...

Oh, and here are the gory, scary photos that I gathered:
This is the fat bundle from up near the gauges, down to near the "big connector". BTW - no faults found in the harness other than the loose/bad connection on one side of the 3A "Display" fuse.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Wow Punch! Cool stuff. I was able to look at the map that is in the "new to me" 5AM.
Saw stuff like the RPM high value. Was able to bump that up from 8xxx rpm (for the 2V) to close to 11K for my 996 engine. (I never liked the 10K limit !!)

Altered the dash readout (supposedly- I changed it to ST4s996 Originally read HM1100 or something...) Fun stuff! I hope I don't get myself into too much trouble...

I used different XDF to open the map that came on my 59M. I was able to see what the ignition advance table looked like. I think I can take some of the fueling values from the ST4s bin file (59M) , and hand load them into the 5AM ECU bin.

Oh it's gonna be fun!!!!

Piss on U for creating a mad man! AAAHhh it's ALIVE !!! (just jokin', dude!)
 

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All I did was pass (not piss) on stuff that others have done.

Once you know that things are OK etc., if you want to get an WBO2 sensor and a cheap cable then you can start logging AFR data and you will have even more fun after sending the log data to me via email.

I understand that absolutely for you enjoying the running of a bike/engine.

I rebuilt a Lambretta Li150 Special where every single part of the bike, engine etc. was taken apart, restored etc.
Started virtually first kick. I still have the video.

Unfortunately got very busy, so have not done the custom paint job yet, but a good friend of mine has access to a proper spray booth, whereas my DIY booth is full of bikes, tools and parts.
 

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You do not need to hand load, as in manual entry of each RPM and TP breakpoint cell.

You can use TunerPro and Excel to to copy the 59M values from the bin, then copy and paste into the 5AM bin.

Make sure you do the offset map as well and ignition.

I will provide some info.

Just on the phone sorting CB4265's no power to the start relay terminal 86 on his 1993 Cagiva Mito.
 
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