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I wouldn't get too carried away about the Roadsmarts. I had a set on and the rear was gone in barely 3,500 miles but I got over 5K with Pirelli Angels. The Roadsmarts were the most expensive and shortest lasting tyres I have ever fitted. I had expected better for a new generation dual compound tyre. These were the first Dunlops I had tried for over 30 years and will almost certainly be the last.
Did you have the 2s or the originals ? The Originals had very flexible sidewalls apparently which creates too much heat on a heavy bike. They strengthened them on the 2s which made them more like the Sportsmarts so they should be better on the ST4. Not that I bought them, just bought the PR2s and they seem good.
 

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Life is too short to worry !
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You didn't mention changing the chain tension as part of the ride height adjustment ? Well, if you don't your going to find the chain is no longer at the correct tension otherwise you end up with a tight chain which restricts suspension and destroys the gearbox. Worst might be a snapped chain wrapped around the back wheel and a cartwheeling bike and rider. Still, you obviously know best

How many issues do you want this thread to discuss ??

I have been running a 4s since 2003 , own wrenching apart from adjusting valves.
Not even sure what , if any , bike you have (you have not taken the trouble to fill in your profile) let alone what you know/do not know about how to adjust things correctly. We were not discussing the necessary adjustments to compensate because they have been very well discussed in other threads if you had taken the time to read them.

20 minutes to drop the forks , yeh , right (read my post where it says 'properly' not the slip-shod way)

As to throttle , this is where you dont 'read' things properly , I said 'entering' not 'through' so yes a slightly positive throttle is correct to compensate for tire drag etc and once again I will say that 'squat' is not the same as 'ride-height' but frankly you are starting to grate so I will leave you to your own thoughts/opinions and we will have to agree to differ.
 

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Of course the engineers at Ducati had no idea when they put that adjusting rod there!!! Must be just for looks!!! Must not of read the right book..
 

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Of course the engineers at Ducati had no idea when they put that adjusting rod there!!! Must be just for looks!!! Must not of read the right book..
When did I say it was no use? I clearly said it raises the ride height and alters the geometry. I didn't say not to fiddle, I said its worth knowing what you are actually doing when you fiddle. A bike is full of adjusters, you don't go fiddling with them unless you understand what they do.
 

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You didn't mention changing the chain tension as part of the ride height adjustment ? Well, if you don't your going to find the chain is no longer at the correct tension otherwise you end up with a tight chain which restricts suspension and destroys the gearbox. Worst might be a snapped chain wrapped around the back wheel and a cartwheeling bike and rider. Still, you obviously know best

How many issues do you want this thread to discuss ??

I have been running a 4s since 2003 , own wrenching apart from adjusting valves.
Not even sure what , if any , bike you have (you have not taken the trouble to fill in your profile) let alone what you know/do not know about how to adjust things correctly. We were not discussing the necessary adjustments to compensate because they have been very well discussed in other threads if you had taken the time to read them.

20 minutes to drop the forks , yeh , right (read my post where it says 'properly' not the slip-shod way)

As to throttle , this is where you dont 'read' things properly , I said 'entering' not 'through' so yes a slightly positive throttle is correct to compensate for tire drag etc and once again I will say that 'squat' is not the same as 'ride-height' but frankly you are starting to grate so I will leave you to your own thoughts/opinions and we will have to agree to differ.
Again, no. You said all that was necessary was to adjust two nuts. I've done lots of forks in and out. You have the right tools it's a very simple job. Although to be fair the fairing on the ST4 is a pain.

Hark at you with your 'properly'. I have been working on bikes and cars since I was about ten years old and we are probably close to the same age, as we have both ridden for 35 years. Yes, I'm that old and dodgy.:)

The ride height adjuster alters the angle the swinging arm makes with the ground. The result is increased resistance to squat under applied torque. It also changes the geometry and quickens the steering as you quite rightly said previously.

Not sure when you stopped believing your avatar Moto ? but grating tshhh ! Bet you would like me if you met me, we would have a laugh and reminisce about the good old days of two strokes and sherbet flying saucers. It's not serious you know, it is just a forum we can chill or have an argument. Means nothing to me.
 

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Did you have the 2s or the originals ? The Originals had very flexible sidewalls apparently which creates too much heat on a heavy bike. They strengthened them on the 2s which made them more like the Sportsmarts so they should be better on the ST4. Not that I bought them, just bought the PR2s and they seem good.
They were the originals.
 

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It's not about which is easier, it's about which is correct.

If you raise the ride height you affect both anti squat and turn in.

Infact it's very easy to drop the forks a couple of mm and it makes a big difference.

It's easy to imagine that a raised rear would prevent the bike squatting as much on the entrance and through a turn on a neutral throttle.

The bike is also sensitive to tyre profile, so maybe it compensates a bit for wear. I just chucked my tyres away after the profile wore down even though they were a long way from illegal.

Lazy throttle action could well have explained it.
If you don't raise the ride height from standard and you do any kind of 'sport' riding, you're going to ground out the exhaust and/or the centre stand regularly.

If you don't raise the ride height from standard AND you drop the forks a couple of mm and you do any kind of 'sport' riding, you're going to ground out the exhaust and/or the centre stand even more regularly and much much earlier on in the overall scheme of things.

You don't mention this, so I think it is fair to assume that you don't do any kind of 'sport' riding.

If this is in fact, as it seems to be, the case, lazy throttle action or unlazy throttle action, tiddlysquat or diddleysquat, it's not really going to make any difference to you anywhichway, so I'd just forget about it if I were you and fret about something else instead.
 

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If you don't raise the ride height from standard and you do any kind of 'sport' riding, you're going to ground out the exhaust and/or the centre stand regularly.
If you don't raise the ride height from standard AND you drop the forks a couple of mm, you're going to ground out the exhaust and/or the centre stand even more regularly and much much earlier on in the overall scheme of things.
You don't mention this, so I feel that it is fair to assume that you don't do any kind of 'sport' riding.
If this is the case, lazy throttle control or unlazy throttle control, tiddlysquat or diddleysquat, it's not really going to make any difference to you anywhichway, so I'd just forget about it if I were you and fret about something else instead.
:) You didn't try to sugar coat it much there Mark, but I've been thinking the same thing. There is theory and there's and there's practical application. The theory of anti-squat being discussed here doesn't mean diddly squat if you aren't riding much much harder than most of us are capable of doing. Myself included. :)
 

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If you don't raise the ride height from standard and you do any kind of 'sport' riding, you're going to ground out the exhaust and/or the centre stand regularly.

If you don't raise the ride height from standard AND you drop the forks a couple of mm and you do any kind of 'sport' riding, you're going to ground out the exhaust and/or the centre stand even more regularly and much much earlier on in the overall scheme of things.

You don't mention this, so I feel that it is fair to assume that you don't do any kind of 'sport' riding.

If this is in fact the case, lazy throttle control or unlazy throttle control, tiddlysquat or diddleysquat, it's not really going to make any difference to you anywhichway, so I'd just forget about it if I were you and fret about something else instead.
It's fair to assume :D haha, I do alright on the big old bus. You might change your mind about the sports riding thing if you were in the gang I ride with.

Funnily enough, lazy throttle control is the primary cause of grounding.

Fretting ? :D:eek::cool:The only fretting I do is on the guitar. Ooooo you are uptime on this forum, it's all that winding on ride height I reckon. I'm low and slow according to you so that must be right.
 

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Raising ride height means freeing off the seized adjuster, adjusting the chain for a none standard setting and often having a problem with the side stand height.
Alas, I had no seized adjuster, there is no change in chain adjustment, and the side stand isn't a problem (and my rear touches when on the center stand).

Tom

P.S. By no change in chain adjustment, I specifically mean that you set the OEM slack at OEM ride height, then change the ride height and measure the new slack and use that number in the future.
 

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I somehow very much doubt it.
Unless you mean the gang you ride miles behind of ?

Lively thread though.
:sleep: keep trying, I hope your riding is sharper than your wit.;) Another bike polisher from the Black Country. All shiny bike and chicken strips wide enough to to coat with carbon fibre.
 

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Another bike polisher from the Black Country.
Lacking in your knowledge of geography too eh ? I see a pattern forming....
All shiny bike and chicken strips wide enough to to coat with carbon fibre.
Most amusing, specially coming from someone with suspension set up the way yours is.
 

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Mark, you do it your way and I do it mine.

Presumably we both get round the corner and I've managed to do that in safety for 35 years with bikes far less capable than the ST4s. I ride at speeds that many riders find to be a challenge, but I'm no knee down merchant. I ride with IAM riders and observers as well as instructors from the Ron Haslam race school and several guys holding racing licences. That's not a boast, I'm about centre of the pack, neither fastest or slowest in that company. I ride within my comfort zone. We do that in the wet or dry.

Despite having very little chicken strip on the left and none at all on the right I have never touched down a thing. I don't spend all my time on the edge of the tread and I'm not about to. I respect the changing grip available. That's how I ride.

If you go back to the original posting, it was a curiosity about why it was necessary to raise the back end ( recommended on lots of forums ), I was curious if it might be a lack of throttle compensation for corner speed 'lazy throttle'. So it seems the answer is that no one has 'lazy throttle' ( which reduces ground clearance ). That's fine by me. I don't have an answer. Maybe it's weight, or you are all riding far faster than i do, but I don't seem to need the ground clearance.
 

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ride with IAM riders and observers"

Based on your previous comment about "One of those" I guess these guys are not friends ?

"as well as instructors from the Ron Haslam race school and several guys holding racing licences"

And yet you still felt the need to ask the question on this forum when you had such an apparent wealth of knowledge on your doorstep?

"I ride at speeds that many riders find to be a challenge"

Yes I can imagine but are we talking because its too slow or too fast ?

I get the strong smell of a forum "Troll" here...
 

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ride with IAM riders and observers"

Based on your previous comment about "One of those" I guess these guys are not friends ?

"as well as instructors from the Ron Haslam race school and several guys holding racing licences"

And yet you still felt the need to ask the question on this forum when you had such an apparent wealth of knowledge on your doorstep?

"I ride at speeds that many riders find to be a challenge"

Yes I can imagine but are we talking because its too slow or too fast ?

I get the strong smell of a forum "Troll" here...
You just want to scrap. I have tried to explain why I'm interested, but you just want to go on the offensive. On reflection 'lazy' was probably a bad choice of wording.

I like to understand why I'm doing something and what it's doing, I'm particularly nerdy like that. I'm not going to get into a long conversations about my perceived lack of riding ability in order to justify the requirement for information on a suspension adjustment.

As for 'Troll' well I've never been accused of that.

Here we are discussing ride height. This thread is on application of throttle and it's effect in a turn. 11 pages so far !

http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13328&whichpage=1
 
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