2000 st4 won't start/no spark

pgeller said:

I'm trying to recall from my 2000 ST2 (Deerslayer 1); IIRC, the starter would crank with the run/stop switch OFF and/or sidestand down, just no fuel pump or spark, whereas later years, they would not even crank in that condition. Am I recalling incorrectly?

pg
DD

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My 01 world not turn over with the side stand down. Thus, my reasoning for shorting it and taking the risk.

samcousa said:

Thanks , yes there was a shim, I was looking through LTs manual for the st and see a ohms test for the sensor, I am going to pull it again and test it for that. I guess if i can't find anything I will check every wire in that system to make sure nothing is pinched or broken, then I will start with a new sensor, I hate this crap!

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Try removing the shim. You can test the resistance at the connector on the left frame.

Yeah. I hate sparky issues also.

Have a good one.

did an ohm test on the sensor and as far as ohms its within limits , I don't know if that means it cant be bad or not, this afternoon I am going to clean off the face with some steelwool , leave one of the shims off and put it back in and try it again, I am running out of ideas, anybody got any Ideas? again the bike has been running perfect, started up ran for about 10 seconds and then shut off just like you were turning the key off, when you try to start it it cranks over fine but does not even try to spit or start (no Spark to the plugs)thanks

Next would be the output to the coils from the ecu along with the associated wiring. It might be the ecu

samcousa said:

did an ohm test on the sensor and as far as ohms its within limits , I don't know if that means it cant be bad or not, this afternoon I am going to clean off the face with some steelwool , leave one of the shims off and put it back in and try it again, I am running out of ideas, anybody got any Ideas? again the bike has been running perfect, started up ran for about 10 seconds and then shut off just like you were turning the key off, when you try to start it it cranks over fine but does not even try to spit or start (no Spark to the plugs)thanks

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Based on the "just stopped" scenario, I'm sorry, but did you eliminate for sure that it's not a spat fuel line? They too do that, ie bike runs great and then just stops if the line is spat. I didn't see a follow-up on that re checking the splashing in the tank when the ignition is energised. Also, did you read Paul's post #20 IIRc re the sidestand and kill switch and eliminate those as well?

Since the bike was running well before hand and then just stopped, I doubt there is much value in following up on CPS shims etc, if the sensor seems okay. As mentioned above, coils issues could be the next place to start looking, if all the above has been eliminated.

stryder said:

Since the bike was running well before hand and then just stopped, I doubt there is much value in following up on CPS shims etc, if the sensor seems okay.

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IDK. A better signal with a smaller gap "could" help. It might not be a good idea to unilaterally rule it out. Just sayin'. Another bit with the CPS signal is that the fuel pump will prime with the key on then it will start up again when the CPS detects a signal.

On the fuel line aspect, they tend to pop more often with a full tank for some weird reason.

Have a good one.

tonered said:

IDK. A better signal with a smaller gap "could" help. It might not be a good idea to unilaterally rule it out. Just sayin'. Another bit with the CPS signal is that the fuel pump will prime with the key on then it will start up again when the CPS detects a signal.

On the fuel line aspect, they tend to pop more often with a full tank for some weird reason.

Have a good one.

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No doubt all the above re the cps shim etc *is* of some value, and I was just making the assumption the bike was starting up and running well just before it died. I *can* see what you mean if the cps is getting weak but still passes the ohms test, but might suddenly need a tighter gap. Do those sensors "fade" or just die? But he stated first that there was "a" shim, and then that there were 2 shims. Why 2 shims? Did ST4's come that way? My ST3 has only 1.

I get you. It is digi, so it would get a signal until it doesn't.

Going on the past discussions here, dropping one cylinder was indicative of ECU issues. No spark on either plug still has me thinking CPS. Other than spark plugs or a popped fuel hose, it is the least expensive, esp that eBay version.

Yes, I've heard of two shims in there. My ST only had one and that was removed when the tacho was acting up. It was the tach (loose brass screws), but I never replaced the shim.

Have a good one.

First thing I checked when it quit was the fuel lines, it is definitely not a fuel problem , there is no spark to the spark plugs.

tonered said:

I get you. It is digi, so it would get a signal until it doesn't.

Going on the past discussions here, dropping one cylinder was indicative of ECU issues. No spark on either plug still has me thinking CPS. Other than spark plugs or a popped fuel hose, it is the least expensive, esp that eBay version.

Yes, I've heard of two shims in there. My ST only had one and that was removed when the tacho was acting up. It was the tach (loose brass screws), but I never replaced the shim.

Have a good one.

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I am going to try it with one shim , first I think I will put the battery on a charge , I read on another post that someones bike with an older style ecu wasn't getting spark and his battery was below a 70% charge, I know mine is low now after trying to start it so I definitely don't want to take a change with that. I will definitely post what I find when i get it running.

SS904 said:

Just had a look at the schematic (found on the sticky provided by Tony). There is a power wire running from the injection relay that goes to both coils, both injectors and the fuel sending unit in your tank. This power is supplied by the 20A under seat in line fuse through the relay. Is your fuel gauge reading correctly? Do you get fuel from the injectors when cranking? A quick check for power is pin 1 and 2 @ the connector for the tank. I feel the CPS would be more of a higher RPM problem if the gap was off. If you're resistance reading was within limits, I'd say it would work well enough to start the bike.

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Wow, great information, thank you, I will look for that tonight

First of all, thank you for all the help, I got it, charged the battery to full, installed the sensor without one of the shims , after cleaning it with oooo steel wool and she had spark, had to have been the sensor, Thanks again for all the great input.

samcousa said:

First of all, thank you for all the help, I got it, charged the battery to full, installed the sensor without one of the shims , after cleaning it with oooo steel wool and she had spark, had to have been the sensor, Thanks again for all the great input.

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Glad to hear that. How old is that battery? Maybe a new battery is a good idea. They do crap out over time, mine did after 6 seasons. As stated elsewhere, relatively cheap insurance.

stryder said:

Glad to hear that. How old is that battery? Maybe a new battery is a good idea. They do crap out over time, mine did after 6 seasons. As stated elsewhere, relatively cheap insurance.

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Yes , The way things have been going, I probably should replace it, I need to replace the fuel filter and lines on my ST3 too before it fails me, I wish there was a metal fuel line kit to replace the hoses with.

Good to hear that you are up and running.

Yeah, metal fuel lines would be killer, but we'd still need rubber in there for the connections and to be able to get the pump assembly in an out.

There is a decent price on the good R10 fuel line at frsport.com. The desmotimes R7 line has been holding up well. I just had to not be fearful of cranking down on the clamps. I do have a foot of R10 on the shelf if I ever get around to moving the fuel filter outside of the tank.

For the batt, I've been very happy with the 12Ah YT14B4. It is a bit taller than the YT12BS, but fits easily in the stock box. The extra amps are nice.

Have a good one.

samcousa said:

...I wish there was a metal fuel line kit to replace the hoses with.

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Seriously, I don't know why there isn't or why one couldn't be whipped up at home. This has been on my mind for years now, getting somne Al or SS tubing and bending/shaping it etc. to fit. One of these winters, I'm going to try doing that in my spare time.

Mount the fuel filter outside the tank and then use submersible line inside the tank. Wouldn't have to go inside but maybe once every 5 years.

If were placing orders, I'd like some metal quick disconnect fittings at the bottom of the flange and just run the external lines forward, instead of aft, down, and around. =)

Have a good one.