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Discussion Starter #1
96519308B 2-1-2 versus 96518708B 2-1, does the 2-1 termi ecu chip supply more fuel and have a different map, resulting in more bhp over the 2-1-2 chip?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
yeah, thanks but does not really provide the answer, is the 2-1 chip 8% more fuel ove the 2-1-2 chip, 16% more over standard? and does the 2-1 chip have a different fuel map, making more power than a 2-1-2 chip,
 

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Adding more fuel to an engine than it requires makes less power, not more.
Optimum power producing AFR's vary with rpm, load, throttle opening, etc., so
a blanket percentage increase over the whole map is probably NOT what the
different ECU's are doing; rather, there is an average fuel increase when you
add up all the hundreds of points on the fuel map. The folks who have shared
PC III maps used to optimize HP (on a dyno in conjunction with a DP ECU) have
shown that there are a lot of areas where the DP race ECU's are _overly_ rich,
probably in the interest of the manufacturer offering a safe and conservative
generic map for mass consumption. Richer mixture= lower cylinder temps and
lessens the chance of any mechanical failures on modified machines.

If you don't have the cams and/or other top end mods like hi-comp pistons and
head work, I wouldn't switch to the cams ECU from either of the Termi ECUs.
 

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yeah, thanks but does not really provide the answer, is the 2-1 chip 8% more fuel ove the 2-1-2 chip, 16% more over standard? and does the 2-1 chip have a different fuel map, making more power than a 2-1-2 chip,
From what I understand:
2-1-2 is 8% over stock and allows removal of 02 sensor.
2-1 is also 8% over stock and allows for the 02 sensor, but also allows for the flappers to be removed without causing a fault code.

I suspect the fuels maps are identical, just one doesn't create a fault when the flappers are removed. I'm no expert, but I believe they will both produce the same amount of power given the same exhaust system.
 

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From what I understand:
2-1-2 is 8% over stock and allows removal of 02 sensor.
2-1 is also 8% over stock and allows for the 02 sensor, but also allows for the flappers to be removed without causing a fault code.

I suspect the fuels maps are identical, just one doesn't create a fault when the flappers are removed. I'm no expert, but I believe they will both produce the same amount of power given the same exhaust system.
I concur.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
quote, 2-1 is also 8% over stock and allows for the 02 sensor, but also allows for the flappers to be removed without causing a fault code.

in the nicest way-hogg wash

1) I run the 2-1-2 ecu chip, and removed the flapper valve motor with no ecu light warning, the 2-1-2 disables the flapper-period

2) The 2-1-2 with the cat in place is a road legal system, the 2-1 is sold as a "race only system" for performance, it has no cat and adds more BHP to the bike, I think ,about 3 to 4 hp, I guess through the loss of the cat and better breathing via a bigger header,

There must be someone out there that knows about the 2-1 ecu fuel map,
 

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Exhaust valve

Someone at one time indicated that the 2-1-2 ECU did not disable the
exhaust flapper valve by default, but it _allows_ the dealer to set the flag
to disable the exhaust valve using the Ducati Diagnostic Tool, which the
stock ECU does not.

Makes sense, since the exhaust flapper valve is not removed by the installation
of slip-on mufflers. Anyone know this for sure?
 

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Someone at one time indicated that the 2-1-2 ECU did not disable the
exhaust flapper valve by default, but it _allows_ the dealer to set the flag
to disable the exhaust valve using the Ducati Diagnostic Tool, which the
stock ECU does not.

Makes sense, since the exhaust flapper valve is not removed by the installation
of slip-on mufflers. Anyone know this for sure?
When I installed my Termi 2-1-2 kit, I started the bike with this set up :
* 2-1-2 ECU
* new air box
* NO stock pipes
* No pipe with the flapper valve
* Flapper valve servo away
* No Cat Converter

Well, sounds fun and no error light on the board.
 

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OK, it sounds like the 2-1-2 ECU, or at least some revisions of that ECU, are
allowing removal of the exhaust valve with no error codes thrown. Whew,
glad that's settled, I'll sleep better for sure :rolleyes:.

So, does that mean if you add the 2-1-2 slip-ons and never touch the exhaust
valve hardware at all, is the valve left in one position all the time and functionally
disabled? Just gotta know (more sleep lost)...
 

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OK, it sounds like the 2-1-2 ECU, or at least some revisions of that ECU, are
allowing removal of the exhaust valve with no error codes thrown. Whew,
glad that's settled, I'll sleep better for sure :rolleyes:.

So, does that mean if you add the 2-1-2 slip-ons and never touch the exhaust
valve hardware at all, is the valve left in one position all the time and functionally
disabled? Just gotta know (more sleep lost)...
Having read virtually every post on this subject and quoting Cedona: with the 308B ECU (slip-on), the exhaust valve and O2 sensor can be set either on or off so... in your scenario above no, the exhaust valve (and O2 sensor) will function normally. If you decide to install a cat converter/eliminator, you can turn off the O2 sensor function. If you change the 2-1-2 pipe to eliminate the exhaust valve, you can turn off the ex. valve function. Plus it has the same 8% richer fuel map as the 2-1 exhaust ECU. The only question I have left is: can all this turning off and on functionality be done with the VDSTS or must it be done by the Dealer?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
best I can find so far,

Racing 2 into 1 exhaust assembly kit w/stainl.steel manifolds max 54mm) and carbon silencer with titanium endcap. The silencer mounts on the right hand and follows the typical supermotard bikes lines; this position allows for improved ground and cornering clearance. The system is equipped with removable dB killer and comes with ECU, racing filter cover and a few elements, such as a set of side panels, that are needed to perfectly integrate the exhaust system to the bike's rear end. This assembly not only increases performance but also makes the vehicle lighter by 7 kg.

For racing use only. AVERAGE POWER INCREASE OF ABOUT 6%. Data calculated using an inertia dynamometer.

I would imagine, that most of the 7kg weight saving, comes from loosing the cat, and guess this has an effect on performance, better breathing from the bigger header would help I guess too, so 6% power increase is about 5 bhp, I wonder if the chip runs a different fuel map (over the 2-1-2) to take account of this set up, or are the main gains simply down to the cat removal and it runs the same fuel map as a 2-1-2, if so why the different ecu part number, and the stamp of racing on it, I understand that "racing" comes up on the start up screen, anyone verify this?

I have got hold of a 2-1 ECU, I am going to get it installed, currently running 2-1-2 Termis and ECU chip, with cat and flapper valve removed, I'll update on performance,
 

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best I can find so far,

Racing 2 into 1 exhaust assembly kit w/stainl.steel manifolds max 54mm) and carbon silencer with titanium endcap. The silencer mounts on the right hand and follows the typical supermotard bikes lines; this position allows for improved ground and cornering clearance. The system is equipped with removable dB killer and comes with ECU, racing filter cover and a few elements, such as a set of side panels, that are needed to perfectly integrate the exhaust system to the bike's rear end. This assembly not only increases performance but also makes the vehicle lighter by 7 kg.

For racing use only. AVERAGE POWER INCREASE OF ABOUT 6%. Data calculated using an inertia dynamometer.

I would imagine, that most of the 7kg weight saving, comes from loosing the cat, and guess this has an effect on performance, better breathing from the bigger header would help I guess too, so 6% power increase is about 5 bhp, I wonder if the chip runs a different fuel map (over the 2-1-2) to take account of this set up, or are the main gains simply down to the cat removal and it runs the same fuel map as a 2-1-2, if so why the different ecu part number, and the stamp of racing on it, I understand that "racing" comes up on the start up screen, anyone verify this?

I have got hold of a 2-1 ECU, I am going to get it installed, currently running 2-1-2 Termis and ECU chip, with cat and flapper valve removed, I'll update on performance,
When you end up with exactly the same numbers using the 2-1 ECU sell me your 2-1-2 ECU. Actually I'll take either since the general forum consensus is that they both add the same percentage of fuel. Only the cam ECU adds more fuel ( an additional 10% over the pipe ECU's).
 

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Don't know for sure but the ignition maps could also be different among the 3 DP ECUs. Wouldn't be surprised to find out that the cam kit ECU has significant ignition map changes compared to the 2-1-2 or 2-1 ECUs.
 

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Don't know for sure but the ignition maps could also be different among the 3 DP ECUs. Wouldn't be surprised to find out that the cam kit ECU has significant ignition map changes compared to the 2-1-2 or 2-1 ECUs.
I think I'm going to have to disagree with you there. If its like any other hemi engine (most of my experience is with automotive race engines) they crank in the advance as soon as possible to whatever the limit is. The only time they retard it is when the det sensor goes off. Since this engine has no det sensor, would they have put an a sophisticated enough program to retard the timing at or below some low engine RPM and high TPS reading? If that were the case, wouldn't that be the same of any ECU?

Goin' fer 25
 

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I think I'm going to have to disagree with you there. If its like any other hemi engine (most of my experience is with automotive race engines) they crank in the advance as soon as possible to whatever the limit is. The only time they retard it is when the det sensor goes off. Since this engine has no det sensor, would they have put an a sophisticated enough program to retard the timing at or below some low engine RPM and high TPS reading? If that were the case, wouldn't that be the same of any ECU?

Goin' fer 25
The ignition timing on the HM is mapped much like the fuel curve. It is controlled by a map programmed into the ECU as opposed to being mechanically controlled. I have several dyno developed Rapid Bike 3 ignition maps for the Hyper/Multistrada with different advance curves. These maps are intended for use with stock ECUs. Additional performance gains can be obtained by altering ignition curves, provided one knows what they're doing. One can also blow a hole in a piston if one doesn't. Personally, I haven't altered the ignition map on my bike for that reason.

It would be interesting to look at the spark maps for the various ECUs. I'm just speculating that they could be different due to emissions requirements, differences in exhaust back pressure and cam timing.
 
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