[Queestce]

G'day all,

I did a long ride today, and when I got to about 10km from home my bike lost it's mind a little... I have no idea what's caused it, but it seemed to occur just a few seconds after I swapped from Sport, to Touring mode (whilst on the move). Basically the "DTC OFF" caution sign came on, along with the EOBD/ABS lights. Rest of the problems as below...

Symptoms:
- Error for messages "ABS" & "Speed Sensor"
- "DTC OFF" warning triangle
- Bike electrics will not turn off with the handlebar switch like normal. I can turn the engine off, but the usual button does nothing to turn off the fan/dash/electrics
- Only way to turn the bike off is with the button in front of the tank under the little cover
- Otherwise seems to be running and functioning as normal

What I've checked/tried:
- Turning it off/on, starting it/stopping it, changing riding modes, disconnecting the battery
- Both front and rear ABS sensors. Both seem fine, and I've cleaned them off - no fix...
- EVERY fuse. Not just for the ABS, but for everything - no blows anywhere
- ABS sensor connections for the front under the beak, and the rear under the riders seat. Both seemed fine externally.

Does anyone have ANY idea what the hell might be going on here? I am at a total loss. I've read some things about the sensor wires snapping on both the front and the rear, anyone know a way to check if that's occurred short of taking off the whole wire? I'd read something about checking the resistance, but haven't done that as yet because my multimeter seems to have given up the ghost too!

If anyone has seen something like this before, or can point me in the direction of some more things to fault find it would be a huge help!

Italian Electronics

Cheers,

Tom

 

[DaveK]

If you're comfortable working on your bike then pull off the skin and do some sleuthing:

Check for pinch points in the wiring harness.
Check for points where wiring has been flexed repeatedly (internal breaks)
Check for loose connectors.

Specifically focus where steering flexes cables... front of the bike on the shocks, handlebars back to under the tank.

You may need to go all the way to removing the tank.

If you're not comfortable dealing with multimeters and electrical sleuthing and the above doesn't show any likely issue then take the bike in.

 

[Queestce]

If you're comfortable working on your bike then pull off the skin and do some sleuthing:

Check for pinch points in the wiring harness.
Check for points where wiring has been flexed repeatedly (internal breaks)
Check for loose connectors.

Specifically focus where steering flexes cables... front of the bike on the shocks, handlebars back to under the tank.

You may need to go all the way to removing the tank.

If you're not comfortable dealing with multimeters and electrical sleuthing and the above doesn't show any likely issue then take the bike in.

Thanks for that mate.

I'm reasonably comfortable playing around with electrics - though in the past I've had little success fixing much... I will have a good check over all the pinch points, but because of the cables sheath it's quite hard to know if there's any breakage there at all. I guess I could check the resistance of each sensor at the connector, but I'm not sure exactly what figure I'd be looking for... If anyone has any ideas what I could do with a multimeter to trial and error the whole thing I'd love to hear em!

Thanks again for the help

Tom

 

[Damascus]

Do a search on faulty throttle housing switches. It's a known problem on some bikes and it sounds like it may fit your situation. Some owners - including myself - only turn off the bike using the tank button knowing the throttle housing switch is prone to failure. You can open it up and play around there. New I think they are about $150 US if I recall correctly.

 

[Damascus]

And, of course, do the obvious. Clean the connectors and use a battery tester to check both CCA and voltage. The DTC warning comes on whenever the battery is disconnected. Could be something as simple as that.

I'm thinking the ABS sensor warning is an Italian red herring thrown in just for fun.

Finally, if you were riding in the rain, some of these bikes - including my own - can do bizarre things like you describe until they dry out.

Electrical gremlins are usually more than I can handle. Best wishes for success!

 

[marxred749s]

I would start by disconnecting the battery for a bit, then check the battery voltage. Reconnect to see if that helped.

Otherwise, as stated above, check all the connectors you can find. Hopefully it is something simple, otherwise you might be at your dealer, hate to say. Also mentioned above, the handlebar switch, the odd part is that this happened after switching maps, this makes me think it may be part of the ECU or display unit unfortunately, not a hard part.

Good luck, and keep us informed. We are pulling for you.

Mark

 

[DaveK]

And, of course, do the obvious. Clean the connectors and use a battery tester to check both CCA and voltage. The DTC warning comes on whenever the battery is disconnected. Could be something as simple as that.

I'm thinking the ABS sensor warning is an Italian red herring thrown in just for fun.

Finally, if you were riding in the rain, some of these bikes - including my own - can do bizarre things like you describe until they dry out.

Electrical gremlins are usually more than I can handle. Best wishes for success!

I think TC and ABS are shut off by the ECU for a wide range of different actual problems - so yea it could be a red herring.

The annoying part is that Ducati COULD be providing more diagnostics help then just saying "take it to a dealer"... but no we can't have that...

Aren't there some aftermarket tools available for pre-DVT LC multi's for getting info from the ECU?

 

[Queestce]

Do a search on faulty throttle housing switches. It's a known problem on some bikes and it sounds like it may fit your situation. Some owners - including myself - only turn off the bike using the tank button knowing the throttle housing switch is prone to failure. You can open it up and play around there. New I think they are about $150 US if I recall correctly.

Thanks for the replies mate. Appreciate the help! Weather was bone dry all day, so I can rule that out. You're not the first person who's mentioned the throttle. I'm a bit confused though, because the actual electrical on/off switch on the bars seems to be working fine to turn the bike ON 100% of the time, just not off... I can't find too much about the throttle housing switch causing similar problems in my searches. Was it on models other than just the MTS that you'd heard of that?

I did a little more fault finding this morning WRT the battery. It was reading 13.2 V cold, and had been off the bike all night. I tried a spare battery in it (which read 12.8V), and it had no effect. Put the original battery back in and started it up, read 14.1V @ idle; well within the service manual limits, so I guess I can rule out that simple fix

I wondered, does anyone know how I might be able to check these ABS sensors out with a multimeter? I figured perhaps if I disconnect the front/rear sensor connector and test the resistance of the actual sensors "downstream" of the connection, and perhaps turn power on an test the voltage coming to the connector from "upstream" it might tell me if the cables are intact or not? Then again, I'm no electrical wizard so that idea probably works in my head, but not in reality Any advice would be much appreciated!

Failing everything else my last ditch effort will be to take it to the shop on Friday and concede defeat. I'm not sure what detail the diagnostic machines they use can actually provide, but I figure perhaps it'll be more than what I get on the dash... I really hope if I do take it to a shop they can just plug something in and tell me what's wrong, as I've got a 4000km trip planned on this thing in just over two weeks...

Thanks for all the help, please keep it coming!

 

[Syd]

Queestce,

I had the *EXACT* same issue couple of weeks ago. Intermittent DTC/ABS error on dash display and sometimes actual speed was not showing on the speedometer, which helped in focusing around the rear wheel speed sensor, instead of the front one.
Could not turn the accessories off after turning off engine neither when issue was present. Had to disconnect one pole of the battery. Be careful not to allow the pole to be slack when unscrewing the bolt, because for me this brought another issue I believe: My odometer has been now showing blinking dashes (-----) instead of current mileage. Trip A/B still works. Bike is currently at the dealership for other maintenance but I hope my total mileage isnt lost. Anyways, here was the problem :

After the usual check/clean, I turned the accessories ON, without starting the bike, and started playing (twisting/bending) with the wire just above the swingarm pivot, near the rear brake fluid reservoir. This triggered the error on the dash display. Repeated the procedure couple of times making sure I knew where the wire was bad, then
spliced the wire with a new one. About 1000km later, issue has not happened yet.

Or you may want to spend $200 for a new speed sensor. (part 55212111B)
https://www.ducatiomaha.com/products/55212111b

Let us know how it turned out!

Syd

 

[Damascus]

Aren't there some aftermarket tools available for pre-DVT LC multi's for getting info from the ECU?

Yea, there's TuneBoy, but that's a whole other adventure and I'm not sure it would help much here. I believe it's only good for clearing some warnings, but not so much for diagnosing those warnings. I could be wrong here, but either way, I can't recommend anyone going down that road unless you really, really enjoy trial and error with minimal support or documentation. It's a love/hate thing for me and many others.

 

[Damascus]

I had the *EXACT* same issue couple of weeks ago ...

Cool! All this is good to know for the next victim. Great post.

I'm thinking the ABS sensor warning is an Italian red herring thrown in just for fun.

This guy is a moron. Don't listen to him.

 

[HB3]

Google "ABS Light will not go out". There is a guy in the UK who had similar issues in a UK Ducati forum. He found a place under the right fairing that the factory had zip tied 2 connectors together with a half loop. The zip tie was too tight and would pull when turning the handlebars. One of the wire broke causing the errors. He was able to repair the broken wire in a few minutes with zero cost!!!!

Sorry I started out lazy!!! This is the link to the thread.

https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/threads/mts-1200-abs-problem-could-be-worth-checking.10189/

 

[Queestce]

Queestce,

I had the *EXACT* same issue couple of weeks ago. Intermittent DTC/ABS error on dash display and sometimes actual speed was not showing on the speedometer, which helped in focusing around the rear wheel speed sensor, instead of the front one.
Could not turn the accessories off after turning off engine neither when issue was present. Had to disconnect one pole of the battery. Be careful not to allow the pole to be slack when unscrewing the bolt, because for me this brought another issue I believe: My odometer has been now showing blinking dashes (-----) instead of current mileage. Trip A/B still works. Bike is currently at the dealership for other maintenance but I hope my total mileage isnt lost. Anyways, here was the problem :

After the usual check/clean, I turned the accessories ON, without starting the bike, and started playing (twisting/bending) with the wire just above the swingarm pivot, near the rear brake fluid reservoir. This triggered the error on the dash display. Repeated the procedure couple of times making sure I knew where the wire was bad, then
spliced the wire with a new one. About 1000km later, issue has not happened yet.

Or you may want to spend $200 for a new speed sensor. (part 55212111B)
https://www.ducatiomaha.com/products/55212111b

Let us know how it turned out!

Syd

Syd, that's fantastic information, thank you so much!

I will have a really good play around this evening with the wires and see what I can see. I wish I had a spare sensor knocking about so I could just plug and play it to see if that worked. Still you're reply is very promising. I'm hoping it comes down to that, and not the ECU or something more dramatic! I'm a bit worried I might have done the same thing with the battery now haha, I've been fiddling a lot... I'll have a look this morning and hope for a correct ODO :wink2:

Thanks HB3, and Damascus for your replies. I will have a good look at that thread. Me thinks there will be a lot of time spent in the garage with a headlamp on my head tonight after work...

Cheers all! Keep the advice coming if you've got it

Thanks,

Tom

 

[Damascus]

The great thing about Ducati's is that if one thing doesn't break, the next thing will. Cool! LOL

 

[Queestce]

Well I may have made headway in narrowing down the problem...

I unclipped both the front and rear ABS sensors and tested the resistance on both of them at the connection. There's a picture of the connection below. Now, I'll be the first to admit I know very little about electrics... But my process was this.

1. Set the multimeter to 2000 Ω
2. Put the negative probe on the terminal post #2 in the picture below, put the positive probe on the terminal post #1 in the picture below.
3. Swear and carry on whilst trying to hold the probes on the tiny little contacts and get a reading...

On the front sensor I was able to consistently get a reading of ~ 820 Ω, on the rear the resistance read >1 on every scale. Now with my limited understanding this would seem to mean that probably the sensor wire is indeed snapped and the thus the circuit is not continuous. I wondered if anyone could perhaps confirm this thought process for me? Assuming that is indeed the case I might even go ahead and buy a new sensor and hope the plug and play fixes it all. One thing I did forget to mention initially is that the bike was reading 0kph at all times as soon as this problem came about. Might mean nothing as I've no idea how the dash gets its info from the ECU and breaks that all down.

Fingers crossed this is the issue, it'd be a cheap(ish) and easy(ish) fix compared to some...

Any more help would be appreciated!

Cheers,

Tom

 

[DaveK]

Well I may have made headway in narrowing down the problem...

I unclipped both the front and rear ABS sensors and tested the resistance on both of them at the connection. There's a picture of the connection below. Now, I'll be the first to admit I know very little about electrics... But my process was this.

1. Set the multimeter to 2000 Ω
2. Put the negative probe on the terminal post #2 in the picture below, put the positive probe on the terminal post #1 in the picture below.
3. Swear and carry on whilst trying to hold the probes on the tiny little contacts and get a reading...

On the front sensor I was able to consistently get a reading of ~ 820 Ω, on the rear the resistance read >1 on every scale. Now with my limited understanding this would seem to mean that probably the sensor wire is indeed snapped and the thus the circuit is not continuous. I wondered if anyone could perhaps confirm this thought process for me? Assuming that is indeed the case I might even go ahead and buy a new sensor and hope the plug and play fixes it all. One thing I did forget to mention initially is that the bike was reading 0kph at all times as soon as this problem came about. Might mean nothing as I've no idea how the dash gets its info from the ECU and breaks that all down.

Fingers crossed this is the issue, it'd be a cheap(ish) and easy(ish) fix compared to some...

Any more help would be appreciated!

Cheers,

Tom

It depends on the meter... but yes generally if it says something like ">" instead of giving you a numerical value then it means the resistance is higher than the range you're set at and you need to go to a higher range. If you're at the top range (which is usually Megaohms) and it's still saying ">" then you've likely got an open circuit. If you're on the same two wires that one the front sensor give you 800ohms and Ducati doesn't have different wiring between front and rear sensors (probably a safe assumption) then you've likely got a broken wire.

 

[Queestce]

It depends on the meter... but yes generally if it says something like ">" instead of giving you a numerical value then it means the resistance is higher than the range you're set at and you need to go to a higher range. If you're at the top range (which is usually Megaohms) and it's still saying ">" then you've likely got an open circuit. If you're on the same two wires that one the front sensor give you 800ohms and Ducati doesn't have different wiring between front and rear sensors (probably a safe assumption) then you've likely got a broken wire.

Well, my DMM doesn't say ">" as such, it just displays "1", which means move to a higher scale. On the rear sensor I went through them all and it was still just steady on "1". The front I was consistently getting ~820 ohms. The connection for the front is exact same, but they are a different part number. I think the cables are a different length, the actual sensor seems the same on both though. All factors, other than the weird problem that won't let me switch electrics off, seem to lead to that sensor. I guess it might be worth biting the bullet and ordering one. I'll be > if I spend $280 and then plug it in and there's no change though!

 

[Damascus]

I guess it might be worth biting the bullet and ordering one.

If I had the time, I might play around with splicing wires. Done that many times in the past. But if I had an upcoming trip and time was short, I would bite the bullet, order a new one, and just be done with it. You could always splice the old later and hang onto it as a spare.

Also if I recall correctly (more and more of challenge these days), there may be thin spacers/shims in that area that you must be careful not to overlook/leave out or you'll have other problems.

Good luck,
Murph

 

[Pelly182]

Depending on your comfort level, it will be quicker to repair then wait for a part to come in...not to mention $280 still in your trousers. Have someone hold the meter and leads and massage the harness until you get the meter to read any sign of continuity, then you know where to break into the harness for repair. I recommend an environmental splice to keep out moisture, or wrap thoroughly if using a regular splice. Good luck whatever you decide.

 

[Queestce]

Well, it's fixed!

I did try to find the damaged part of the old cable, but I'm very pressed for time at the moment, so rather than fiddle around for hours I bit the bullet and bought a new one. Ducati were great. I ordered it at 9am today and it was shipped to my local dealer from the Sydney factory by 4pm. Fitted it by 6pm and it's back in action!

I had a moment of despair when I first hooked up the new sensor and turned the bike on. First thing to come up was "Error - ABS, Error - Speed Sensor". I was pretty gutted until I realised the front wheel sensor was still unplugged from when I had been testing it's resistance! Plugged that back in and all the errors disappeared. Bike electrics turning off/on as normal with the RH switch too. I'm still confused as to how a faulty sensor stops a seemingly unrelated switch from operating correctly, but I'll try to ignore that and hope it never happens again!

Anyway, thanks to all of you for the help. It's great to have such a responsive group to bounce questions to.