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Retired Pipe Polisher C2H6O+
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Gives a whole new meaning to "pulling the motor" don't it? :)
 

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comrade moderator
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Interesting. I have doubts as to the crash-ability of this piece...the whole bike for that matter. Also how do you fix geometry tolerances?
 

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the monocoque, definately going to make repairs difficult and expensive, my thought tho is sub units would be replaced but to keep geometry spot on they'll have to have jigs or such? or take to specialists like gmd computrack.

Fingers crossed I won't have to find out!

Interesting. I have doubts as to the crash-ability of this piece...the whole bike for that matter. Also how do you fix geometry tolerances?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Interesting. I have doubts as to the crash-ability of this piece...the whole bike for that matter. Also how do you fix geometry tolerances?

The right picture is the bottom part of the frame so these four bolds are mounted to the cilinderheads and keep the complete bike together :eek:

Gr
Wilco
 

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Hi All

Because of my work I am now in possession of a naked frame / airbox .

Because you might find this intresting I took some pics to show you ...
Any way I can get a peek inside? Am specifically interested in seeing if there are any internal ribs/stiffeners and if so how they are configured.
 

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Any way I can get a peek inside? Am specifically interested in seeing if there are any internal ribs/stiffeners and if so how they are configured.
There aren't any internal structures, it's basically a box section at the front with the large opens at the back being braced by the engine.

 

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There aren't any internal structures, it's basically a box section at the front with the large opens at the back being braced by the engine.
Wow... awesome pic. Thanks for posting it. So that means that all of the directional stiffness has to be achieved via material thickness changes only. Pretty impressive, especially for a cast AL structure. I think I can see how going away from the trellis a CF airbox would have been the first, most logical configuration for that structure, as they did with the GP9/GP10. I think the elastic properties of CF however, regardless of the layup are probably far too stiff, and yield too little "feel" through the front end, which was a common complaint on both of those bikes.

Very impressive... would love to see some pics of the casting process itself. Wasn't Borgo Panigale originally where Ducati's foundry was located?
 

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Blacksmith with an anvil and a couple of different sized hammers , One is not suppossed to crash it ...
Insurance companies will cringe... I wonder what the replacement cost is ? Shutter to think about the labour costs...
Write offs galore...

I've never bought a vehicle that I was concerened about the cost of a crash ...
 

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Blacksmith with an anvil and a couple of different sized hammers , One is not suppossed to crash it ...
Insurance companies will cringe... I wonder what the replacement cost is ? Shutter to think about the labour costs...
Write offs galore...

I've never bought a vehicle that I was concerened about the cost of a crash ...
I was thinking the same thing. I'll wait a while I don't think my 1098/1198 is out of style yet.
 

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I wonder what the replacement cost is ? Shutter to think about the labour costs...
I would think that it is fairly commensurate with the cost of a trellis frame during the first model year of each new design. As far as labor costs are concerned again, I don't think there would be much of a difference in man hours between swapping out a trellis or the new airbox/stiffener. Bent frame member or bent airbox you still have to take the same amount of stuff off the bike to remove each of the "chassis".
 

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I was thinking the same thing. I'll wait a while I don't think my 1098/1198 is out of style yet.
Same here... Not really a huge fan of the look of the Panigale. Personally, I feel like the Tamburini designed 916 and 916 derivatives will never go out of style, and I can't see parting with mine ever.

However I can see adding to the stable... figure by around 2018 the D16RR should be down to about $20K ;)
 

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...until now! I would think that a trellis frame may be more resistant to deformation in a crash than that aluminum box. Time will tell...
I am thinking the box is going to be stiffer, much better with regard to distributed load, but the trellis is probably better under a torsional (lengthwise twisting) load. I would also think that the box would behave significantly better in those incidents with a large rotating component of force, thinking specifically of the triple tree slamming into the steering lock... that would mess the trellis up right quick I would imagine.
 

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Mr Leakered
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It's not so much the box, but what stresses are now transferred to the heads and cases. How do you verify if they are still aligned. Yikes.

That said, if crash damage can directed to the airbox, replacing one smaller part versus the whole frame, it might not be too bad. Well, unless Duc prices it at $3k.

Here's another question, the VIN used to be stamped on the head tube. I'm assuming it is still there, but what constitutes the 'frame' of the bike. You could almost argue that the motor IS the bike. The airbox and rear frames are bolt ons, not that much different than fairings. =)

Have a good one.
 

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It's not so much the box, but what stresses are now transferred to the heads and cases. How do you verify if they are still aligned. Yikes.
Very little difference in this regard between the box and the trellis. The forces required to deform the engine cases after being transferred through the box/trellis (which in this case would be the main energy absorption component) would be high enough that the entire machine would be trashed. Mis-aligned heads would not be an issue. Has this ever happened to a trellis framed Duc? I've never heard of it.

That said, if crash damage can directed to the airbox, replacing one smaller part versus the whole frame, it might not be too bad. Well, unless Duc prices it at $3k.
True... no idea what it costs to replace. Interestingly I took a look through the Panigale S Parts Catalog earlier and unless I am blind the p/n for the airbox is not listed, at least I could not find it. There was one exploded view where it was visible, but there was no part callout on it.

...but what constitutes the 'frame' of the bike. You could almost argue that the motor IS the bike. The airbox and rear frames are bolt ons, not that much different than fairings.
Well, the airbox at least is different as it acts as a structural stiffener, much like the trellis. So at least in that regard it is technically a "frame". But in a stressed member configuration like this you are correct, the engine plays just as large a role as any other chassis component.
 

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This is a lot like the Vincents, except that they use the "frame" as an oil tank instead of an airbox. In that case, the frame/oil tank IS the motorcycle.

There's really nothing exotic about that airbox/frame unit. It appears to be an aluminum casting, probably an alloy like 356 and almost certainly heat treated for strength. It has to be less expensive to make than a trellis frame.
 

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Mr Leakered
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Very little difference in this regard between the box and the trellis. The forces required to deform the engine cases after being transferred through the box/trellis (which in this case would be the main energy absorption component) would be high enough that the entire machine would be trashed. Mis-aligned heads would not be an issue. Has this ever happened to a trellis framed Duc? I've never heard of it.
I disagree. There is a huge difference. The trellis used to be attached to the engine cases (never the heads) at two locations with braced sections transferring loads front to rear (except for the SS / they have no cross bracing).

The 1199 only transfers loads to the heads, except for the rear swing arm. The heads are still bolted to the cases with four long bolts. Yes, the heads have been designed for this, but many more components are now subject to accident damage.

Triumph and others have used the heads as a stressed member, but AFAIK, not to this extent. Only the Britten, D16RR, and MotoGP bikes have gone this far. The D16 linked the front and rear frames, I believe, while also having two more cylinders (with requisite head bolts) to transfer the loads.

Would I buy a 1199? Yep, if it weren't for other 'features.' I have zero love for electronic throttles or suspension. If those weren't there, I'd be in a lot of trouble at home.

Have a good one.
 

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There's really nothing exotic about that airbox/frame unit. It appears to be an aluminum casting, probably an alloy like 356 and almost certainly heat treated for strength. It has to be less expensive to make than a trellis frame.
Absolutely... Fixturing for the trellis vs tooling for the casting would be a wash. But cycle time is where the casting is going to have a huge advantage over the trellis weldment. A little secondary machining, cleanup and your done.

Gonna have to go thru the catalog again, wanted to plug the airbox P/N into the Ducati Omaha site and see what it goes for but I went thru the catalog twice and could not see it called out in any of the exploded views.
 
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