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just bought the power commander, wide band and auto tune for the 1198. Already fitted with the DP ecu,termi slip on's and air filters. Goal is to try and tune the under 4500rpm roughness out of it as others said they have been able to do, and maybe a little bit smoother through the rev range and try and get rid of some of the popping on decel. giving this method a go before i throw it all in a pile and just buy a microtec.

Big question.... is anyone willing to share a base map for the above as ive done a lot of searching and have been unable to find one, also some rough target air/fuel figures.

Have spent some time tuning efi v8's and people were very quiet with even giving base figures to start with, being hopeful that the bike community isn't as secretive
 

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just bought the power commander, wide band and auto tune for the 1198. Already fitted with the DP ecu,termi slip on's and air filters. Goal is to try and tune the under 4500rpm roughness out of it as others said they have been able to do, and maybe a little bit smoother through the rev range and try and get rid of some of the popping on decel. giving this method a go before i throw it all in a pile and just buy a microtec.

Big question.... is anyone willing to share a base map for the above as ive done a lot of searching and have been unable to find one, also some rough target air/fuel figures.

Have spent some time tuning efi v8's and people were very quiet with even giving base figures to start with, being hopeful that the bike community isn't as secretive

Are there not any maps to download from the Power Commander website? They don't come with the system, you have to go to the website and download them, then install the closest one to your setup. After that, just ride the bike and keep accepting the trims until the trims settle down. Then, leave it alone, and the Autotune will function as a closed loop system.
 

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I've never understood auto tune to operate as a closed loop system. I was always under the impression that had to tell the powercommander to accept changes before they go into effect.
 

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I've never understood auto tune to operate as a closed loop system. I was always under the impression that had to tell the powercommander to accept changes before they go into effect.
The trim table shows the changes made via the O2 sensors in %. However, they are restricted to +- 20%, which is the default setting. This can be changed. The trims are temporary and variable within the limits until they are accepted. They are then incorporated into the map that's currently loaded. So, yes, it's running as a closed loop system, but only within the limits that are allowed.

I've had the system running on my Versys since 2009, and it works very well.

The autotune setup for the Microtec ECU does NOT operate this way. The changes are only effective after they are saved into the current map.
 

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just bought the power commander, wide band and auto tune for the 1198. Already fitted with the DP ecu,termi slip on's and air filters. Goal is to try and tune the under 4500rpm roughness out of it as others said they have been able to do, and maybe a little bit smoother through the rev range and try and get rid of some of the popping on decel. giving this method a go before i throw it all in a pile and just buy a microtec.

Big question.... is anyone willing to share a base map for the above as ive done a lot of searching and have been unable to find one, also some rough target air/fuel figures.

Have spent some time tuning efi v8's and people were very quiet with even giving base figures to start with, being hopeful that the bike community isn't as secretive
Aus,

It looks like we are pretty close in terms of mods; I’ve got de-catted stock cans, re flashed race edu, etc. I’ve been running my auto-tune for a couple months now. My results are not perfect, but I’m game to share the map.

I am in the same boat as you. I know there is more power and smoothness in there, and I’ would love to see some numbers

PM me if you’re interested. Mine is not too far from the PC maps but it is way improved over stock and even adding the race ecu re-flash.
 

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Trackday Junkie
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Are there not any maps to download from the Power Commander website? They don't come with the system, you have to go to the website and download them, then install the closest one to your setup. After that, just ride the bike and keep accepting the trims until the trims settle down. Then, leave it alone, and the Autotune will function as a closed loop system.
Problem with this is that I've seen PC post maps for the 1198...and every other bike out there....for the general map of MOST of the rpm band.

Even PC won't post a map that has dealt with the EPA's golden territory of under 4500 rpm and sometimes in the rpm range of 15% or less at any rpm. My map has had that taken care of, and boy did it make a massive difference in rideability under 4500 rpm. I was equally impressed to get more top end too, even tho' I bought the PC merely to clean up the bottom end. End result 166/94.

But with an Autotune, you don't need a base map. Just ride it around, and allow it to map itself.

If you need a map still, let me know, and I can go copy my map (tuned by L&L Motorsports, arguably one of the west coasts best tuners). Same mods...DP ECU, Termignoni slip-ons, filter, PC5.
 

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Problem with this is that I've seen PC post maps for the 1198...and every other bike out there....for the general map of MOST of the rpm band.

Even PC won't post a map that has dealt with the EPA's golden territory of under 4500 rpm and sometimes in the rpm range of 15% or less at any rpm.
PC’s default map w/ slip-ons sets a 13.5 a/f ratio from idle to about 2000 rpm, then 13.2 the rest of the way through the rpm range.

But with an Autotune, you don't need a base map. Just ride it around, and allow it to map itself.

If you need a map still, let me know, and I can go copy my map (tuned by L&L Motorsports, arguably one of the west coasts best tuners). Same mods…DP ECU, Termignoni slip-ons, filter, PC5.
That’s not quite right. The auto tune will monitor and recommend updates to your map to keep the bike at the a/f ratio specified in the map. If that’s a good map, you’re going to get a good result. If the a/f ratio isn’t perfect it’s going to be sub par.

Even the as delivered PC5 slip-on map is a vast improvement, but it’ s not perfect.
 

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Problem with this is that I've seen PC post maps for the 1198...and every other bike out there....for the general map of MOST of the rpm band.

Even PC won't post a map that has dealt with the EPA's golden territory of under 4500 rpm and sometimes in the rpm range of 15% or less at any rpm. My map has had that taken care of, and boy did it make a massive difference in rideability under 4500 rpm. I was equally impressed to get more top end too, even tho' I bought the PC merely to clean up the bottom end. End result 166/94.

But with an Autotune, you don't need a base map. Just ride it around, and allow it to map itself.

If you need a map still, let me know, and I can go copy my map (tuned by L&L Motorsports, arguably one of the west coasts best tuners). Same mods...DP ECU, Termignoni slip-ons, filter, PC5.

Wow, that is pretty impressive power gain from only slip on air filter and tuning.

I have a 1098 S Tricolore with Power Commander, full Termis, EVR carbon airbox and airtubes, short velocity stacks, DP lightweight flywheel, DP racing slipper clutch with aluminum plates - made 158hp and 88ftlbs.

How did you almost see the same increase in power as I did, with much less modifications?
 

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That’s not quite right. The auto tune will monitor and recommend updates to your map to keep the bike at the a/f ratio specified in the map.
Dynojet says that the Autotune actually trims the fuel while running, but only within the limits the user specifies. Factory default is + or - 20%. This can be changed by going into the Autotune menu. Accepting the trims changes the base map by the figures in the trim table and the trim table then returns to zero. So, you're running a limited closed loop system.

I've had this setup running in my Kawasaki since June of 2009, and it works very well.

If you're using a Microtec ECU with its autotune setup, the changes have to be applied manually before the changes become effective.
 

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Problem with this is that I've seen PC post maps for the 1198...and every other bike out there....for the general map of MOST of the rpm band.

Even PC won't post a map that has dealt with the EPA's golden territory of under 4500 rpm and sometimes in the rpm range of 15% or less at any rpm. My map has had that taken care of, and boy did it make a massive difference in rideability under 4500 rpm. I was equally impressed to get more top end too, even tho' I bought the PC merely to clean up the bottom end. End result 166/94.

But with an Autotune, you don't need a base map. Just ride it around, and allow it to map itself.

If you need a map still, let me know, and I can go copy my map (tuned by L&L Motorsports, arguably one of the west coasts best tuners). Same mods...DP ECU, Termignoni slip-ons, filter, PC5.
Dynojet says that the Autotune actually trims the fuel while running, but only within the limits the user specifies. Factory default is + or - 20%. This can be changed by going into the Autotune menu. Accepting the trims changes the base map by the figures in the trim table and the trim table then returns to zero. So, you're running a limited closed loop system.

I've had this setup running in my Kawasaki since June of 2009, and it works very well.

If you're using a Microtec ECU with its autotune setup, the changes have to be applied manually before the changes become effective.
yes, the PC auto tune does adjust live; and you do get the benefit of the adjustment while riding, and you save it after the fact.

My point was, the auto tune doesn’t know what makes the most power. It’s adjustments are made to get the bike to the a/f specified in the map. Auto tune keeps you as close as practical to the a/f ratio you specify.
 

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PC’s default map w/ slip-ons sets a 13.5 a/f ratio from idle to about 2000 rpm, then 13.2 the rest of the way through the rpm range.

That’s not quite right. The auto tune will monitor and recommend updates to your map to keep the bike at the a/f ratio specified in the map. If that’s a good map, you’re going to get a good result. If the a/f ratio isn’t perfect it’s going to be sub par.

Even the as delivered PC5 slip-on map is a vast improvement, but it’ s not perfect.
Mine was tuned for 13.1-13.2 across the board. But yes, The DP ECU gets it in the ball park, but there is a lot that needs to be optimized.


Wow, that is pretty impressive power gain from only slip on air filter and tuning.

I have a 1098 S Tricolore with Power Commander, full Termis, EVR carbon airbox and airtubes, short velocity stacks, DP lightweight flywheel, DP racing slipper clutch with aluminum plates - made 158hp and 88ftlbs.

How did you almost see the same increase in power as I did, with much less modifications?
Should be compared same day same dyno. Maybe your lower numbers would be higher on same conditions.
Exactly. Cannot compare numbers at all unless on the same dyno. I know that L&L's is considered slightly conservative. When we first put the bike on, it put down 157rwhp, right where it 'should' be. But I got the PC5 to simply cleean up the bottom end and maybe the midrange. Tuner still went through everything, and the same tuner/dyno ended up with 166/94 on that dyno. Remember, I have an 1198S. So your 1098S will probably make 'my' number or maybe a tad more on the same dyno as I do.
 

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yes, the PC auto tune does adjust live; and you do get the benefit of the adjustment while riding, and you save it after the fact.

My point was, the auto tune doesn’t know what makes the most power. It’s adjustments are made to get the bike to the a/f specified in the map. Auto tune keeps you as close as practical to the a/f ratio you specify.
I agree. My intent with the Kawasaki was to get rid of the catalytic converter and the emissions calibration and improve driveability, and it has done that very well. The closed loop operation is a welcome bonus. Were I looking for absolute best performance, I'd have it custom mapped on a dyno.
 

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I don’t have my map or a/f in front of me, but I went into my slip on map and updated a few of the tables where I was having ride-ability problems. My issue is that from about 2200 - 4250 … give or take, if I give too much part throttle the bike misses a beat or stumbles slightly, then accelerates. I took a look at the AFR and made a few tweaks.

At 2%, 5% at “idle” or slightly lower the PC map was set about 13.5 for small square of the map and then moved to 13.2. I staggered the 13.5’s down to 13.1 in the first section of part throttle a/f so that from about 2000 - 4500 I am feeding 13.1 AFR to both cylinders. I left the rest of the map untouched because when my shop had it on the dyno there were absolutely no dips in power anywhere. I test rode and fed throttle in the affected rpm region, and the results were good. Really good. So I will probably accept the trims from the last ride & try again, then possibly try 13.0 depending.

HTH
 

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PCV tuning with Termi race slip on ecu

Mine was tuned for 13.1-13.2 across the board. But yes, The DP ECU gets it in the ball park, but there is a lot that needs to be optimized.






Exactly. Cannot compare numbers at all unless on the same dyno. I know that L&L's is considered slightly conservative. When we first put the bike on, it put down 157rwhp, right where it 'should' be. But I got the PC5 to simply cleean up the bottom end and maybe the midrange. Tuner still went through everything, and the same tuner/dyno ended up with 166/94 on that dyno. Remember, I have an 1198S. So your 1098S will probably make 'my' number or maybe a tad more on the same dyno as I do.
I was under the impression that I cannot tune the closed loop portion of my 20101198
S Termi slip on race ecu map with a PCV but can only tune the open loop portion of the map above 5,000 rpm per the Dynojet website. Is it your experience that adding the autotune to the PCV that you can tune the entire map including what was the untouchable closed loop section of the map? thanks, Mort
 

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I was under the impression that I cannot tune the closed loop portion of my 20101198
S Termi slip on race ecu map with a PCV but can only tune the open loop portion of the map above 5,000 rpm per the Dynojet website. Is it your experience that adding the autotune to the PCV that you can tune the entire map including what was the untouchable closed loop section of the map? thanks, Mort
Dynojet would go to EPA jail forever if they advertised their unit could alter smog specs.
Hence the 5K rpm and above where there is no EPA testing specs.
Now whether or not you could "modify" your unit personally might be a bird of another color. Prolly a way to do it.
 

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I was under the impression that I cannot tune the closed loop portion of my 20101198
S Termi slip on race ecu map with a PCV but can only tune the open loop portion of the map above 5,000 rpm per the Dynojet website. Is it your experience that adding the autotune to the PCV that you can tune the entire map including what was the untouchable closed loop section of the map? thanks, Mort
You can NOT override the O2 sensors with PCV. The ECU will just sense richness and cut fuel back. You need to go to the FAQ because this has been covered for several years. The O2 sensors need to be shut off by reflashing the ECU before any tuning is attempted. Get a Doug Lofgren reflash and be done with any problems.
 

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PCV O2 sensors

You can NOT override the O2 sensors with PCV. The ECU will just sense richness and cut fuel back. You need to go to the FAQ because this has been covered for several years. The O2 sensors need to be shut off by reflashing the ECU before any tuning is attempted. Get a Doug Lofgren reflash and be done with any problems.
Thanks for the info, ttpete. With my Termi slip on race ECU, my O2 sensors are removed and bung holes plugged with included plugs and terminator electrical plugs installed on the O2 wiring to prevent codes so the O2 sensors are shut off as part of the Termi slip on kit install. I am still told that the PCV cannot be tuned below 5,000 rpm with the pcv and the slip on termi race ecu and that only the full termi system race ecu allows tuning below 5,000 rpm. Just trying to decide how to get my entire map open for PCV tuning or if it is worth it to just get the PCV and tune above 5,000 rpm. The bike runs very well as is but I want it optimized across the rev range. Can you post Doug Lofgren's contact info?
Thanks so much for your advice !! Very much appreciated. Mort
 

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Thanks for the info, ttpete. With my Termi slip on race ECU, my O2 sensors are removed and bung holes plugged with included plugs and terminator electrical plugs installed on the O2 wiring to prevent codes so the O2 sensors are shut off as part of the Termi slip on kit install. I am still told that the PCV cannot be tuned below 5,000 rpm with the pcv and the slip on termi race ecu and that only the full termi system race ecu allows tuning below 5,000 rpm. Just trying to decide how to get my entire map open for PCV tuning or if it is worth it to just get the PCV and tune above 5,000 rpm. The bike runs very well as is but I want it optimized across the rev range. Can you post Doug Lofgren's contact info?
Thanks so much for your advice !! Very much appreciated. Mort
Doug posts here as moperfserv .
 
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