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I got a interesting email from Department of Suspension on his findings with the 1098/848 line of bikes. here is the link . lots of reading

www.departmentofsuspension.com/info/

I think this might help out a few of us. Let him know your from this fourm if you decide you want some help with your setup.

i hope this is ok now....
 

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I saw this on another Ducati forum, what woks for one guy doesn't automatically mean it will work for others. What he calls a kit is basically a offset triple tree and a ride height adjuster. I dont really define that as a "kit". I am sure it will make the bike perform better on track, but these are streetbikes first, so maybe this is not a suitable product for many 848/1098/1198 owners.
 

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I saw this on another Ducati forum, what woks for one guy doesn't automatically mean it will work for others. What he calls a kit is basically a offset triple tree and a ride height adjuster. I dont really define that as a "kit". I am sure it will make the bike perform better on track, but these are streetbikes first, so maybe this is not a suitable product for many 848/1098/1198 owners.

I think it is still good information and good reading
 

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It is a good read, and for the first time ever I disagree with Jason as I ran my race 848 bike similar to the way Pegram had his set up and it transformed the bike with the Nicols 30mm triples.

Jason is saying 25mm WOW!

Give Dan Kyle a call.

Also do you race/track your bike or street ride? If its for a street bike forget you ever read it as its not worth your time or money for this kind of mod on the street IMHO.

ALSO I am by no means an expert on suspension but I did try some of the things Jason mentions in his research and over the season Dan Kyle's info helped the most.
 

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It is a good read, and for the first time ever I disagree with Jason as I ran my race 848 bike similar to the way Pegram had his set up and it transformed the bike with the Nicols 30mm triples.

Jason is saying 25mm WOW!

Give Dan Kyle a call.

Also do you race/track your bike or street ride? If its for a street bike forget you ever read it as its not worth your time or money for this kind of mod on the street IMHO.

ALSO I am by no means an expert on suspension but I did try some of the things Jason mentions in his research and over the season Dan Kyle's info helped the most.
I guess its just a diffrent solution . sounds like it worked good
 

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I guess its just a diffrent solution . sounds like it worked good

It works for him and his riding style, and I am 100% certain it will NOT work for me.

If your looking for a base set up use his by all means but using his set up your also sitting at a 25mm Offset which is a huge difference than stock at 36mm.

All in all no matter who's numbers you use you will always need to tweak it to fit, your weight, your riding style, and the track you are currently riding.

If you can't tell the difference you have no reason what so ever to change your bike to someone else's specs.
 

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Exactly right on all accounts.

Nobody else can "set-up" your motorcycle for you, AND there's no such thing as "one perfect set-up".

Everybody rides differently, and expects different things from their motorcycle.
 

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I agree... BUT, the 848/1098 is pretty screwed up from the factory. Jason is 100% accurate in the issues he describes. I am concerned about the lack of rear link discussion, but otherwise... fixing those geometry issues from the get go, really doesn't have much to do with personal setup. Sure the rear ride height is high, that's one thing I don't agree upon, but you don't have to run it that high. There are many people who have been successful in running their bikes with just the 30mm offset triples, Dan Kyle rear suspension link, re-sprung forks/shock and setting it up per Dan's configuration, which isn't "stink-bug" tell ya that much.

My 748 was setup flat and my 749R is setup pretty flat. I do get some head shake down the front straight at willow, but thats really the worst thing.



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I found this to be a very interesting read, but I have to say a lot of it seemed to be smoke. He's justifying his set up and trying to sell a kit.

Shooting for a specific swing arm angle is a strange way to go about set up in my estimation. Swing arm angle mainly affects squat/anti-squat when you're grabbing throttle (it also affects rear suspension when engine braking). Squat can hinder corner finish, but excessive anti-squat will result in a loss of rear traction. There are so many variables here that saying 10 degrees is better than 7 degrees (or whatever numbers you want to use) is ludicrous IMHO.

He is basically raising the center of gravity (CG) and increasing trail by a whopping 11mm. This may work for him, but it's not the direction I would go. I wonder about his initial trail measurement - these things aren't cast in stone as there's more than one way to go about it. Roadracing World reports the 1098 trail at 97mm.

Everyone has different ideas, some may work for one person but not another. If there were one set of magic numbers for rake/trail/CG/swingarm angle/etc then we would all just go to GMD Computrack for set up and call it good.

This is why testing and pre-race practice is crucial in racing.
 

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Ok I'm too lazy to look it up, but what front spring rates do the 848/1098 use? The author of the articles says he ended up with .925 in the front.

I know when I rode an 848 a few months ago it felt too stiff in the rear and too soft in the front, and supposedly had "factory" recommended settings.
 

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Bad Experience With Jason From Department Of Suspension

I had my first track day with my highly modded 848 this past Monday, and went to Jason for trackside support at Mid-Ohio. He had helped me a lot in my first 2 experiences with my Hondas, charging $50 bucks per setup with a money-back guarantee. I managed to set the sag myself, but wanted help with rebound and compression.

Well, this experience was very different - I guess because I was on Ducati or something, because when he saw the Kyle 30mm offset triples, he basically laughed in my face, told me my rig was all wrong (borderline unrideable), and essentially blasted Dan Kyle as not knowing anything about Ducatis. He said 30mm was "better than stock" but didn't go nearly far enough.

The thing that really upset me, though, was that I went to him before my first session so I could work with it, and the guy essentially eroded the confidence I had in my bike before I got on the track. Add that to the fact that he was clearly playing to the crowd to get laughs at my bike's expense, and you get one of the LEAST professional experiences I've ever had in dealing with the sportbike community...

To add just a little more, he also disparaged the concept of getting information from the Internet, and told me that he'd "sent me" the reasons why my setup was fucked via e-mail.

To make a long story short, the guy talks too much, bullshits too much while he's working, is REALLY opinionated, and now, IMHO, he charges too much for what he offers. $80 bucks for 20 mins work ($240 bucks an hour) is really over the top, so you can get treated with disrespect and to have you bike publicly disparaged as your reaching out for help.

I don't know if times are tough, or if he's losing in a rivalry with Kyle, or if he has a personal problem with Kyle USA, but he won't be getting my business any more after this experience - which is a shame, since he is the one that STT has decided to link up with at my local track.

If you've had good experiences with him, great. But my view is that whether the guys has skills or not, he doesn't know how to treat a customer - never mind one that's paying nearly doctor's office rates in the pits.
 

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When I use the link it takes me to a "Site Under Construction" page..... :confused:
 

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When I use the link it takes me to a "Site Under Construction" page..... :confused:
I was able to hack into the site a bit, and cut/copy/paste his White Paper into a pdf. Click here to download it.

Bottom line is - he uses a "standard" Ducati setup baseline to determine that the current generation superbike is "all over the floor" geometry-wise...and with a few mods (25mm triples and a ride height adjuster and a few others), he can get it back to his "standard" configuration. Seems well thought through and well considered.

Too bad he was so unprofessional to me in the pits, when he found that I had Kyle triples on my bike, instead of his setup.
 
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