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Discussion Starter #1
I'm sure this has been discussed, but in a quick (VERY quick) search I didn't find anything about it.

Options? Power to be expected? WIth head work and cams? Including work to the crank?

All that good stuff...

I know I know...pricey....please don't tell me about how I could spend the same amount of money and get a new bike....blah blah blah...that's not the info I'm looking for here.

If I've just overlooked a thread that already talks about all of this, please direct me to that thread.

We're walking out the door to go buy a Gas Gas 280 for trials so I'm a little pressed on time at the moment, sorry.

TIA for any info you can provide!
 

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are you talking big bore for a 1000DS motor....or big bore for your 900SS?....because I think most people do a 944 big bore kit on the 900SS...I have heard very irregularly of a varied bigger here and there....but they are either drag race bikes or they are people that build bigger for more HP for the dyno and to show off at the coffee shop to other bikers....not for regular everyday or higher milage riding due to reliability problems that could result....
 

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Discussion Starter #3
for the 1000DS motor, hence the reason the post title said 1000DS in it...(or it should, instead of DB)

again, not interested in all the commentary, interested in what's avaliable,etc.

:D
 

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I know this thread is about a big bore for the 1000DS, but just out of interest sake, the biggest big bore I've seen for the 900 is a 1005cc kit! And its bolt-on like the 944. They achieved this by using a cylinder liner that is thin but but stronger that the stock aluminium liner (so no need to machine the engine casings). Aparently this make more that 100hp at around 7000rpm. Check the link and use babelfish to translate as it is in German.

http://www.silent-hektik.com/BigBore_Duc.htm
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Bartti said:
http://www.kaemna.de/cms_en/katalog.htm?&view=artikel&artikel=1320

This is so far only big bore kit what I have seen to 1000DS engine.

http://www.kaemna.de/cms_en/tu_example.htm?&ct=22

Here is HP and Torque curves!

hrmmm, so that's....~1,660 for the kit in american and I have to ship it to Germany?

I did find the Bucci kit that brings them out to 1034 for 1,397.95 and I know I can get it cheaper AND it includes a new set of jugs...I wonder if this kit would be more reliable than the kit you listed? Anyone have any experience with the Bucci kit or any Bucci kits for that matter?
 

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JDuc said:
hrmmm, so that's....~1,660 for the kit in american and I have to ship it to Germany?

I did find the Bucci kit that brings them out to 1034 for 1,397.95 and I know I can get it cheaper AND it includes a new set of jugs...I wonder if this kit would be more reliable than the kit you listed? Anyone have any experience with the Bucci kit or any Bucci kits for that matter?
why would you spend the time and money for only 42cc of extra displacement, when another $262 bucks buys you the max 86cc overbore [98mm] That last $262 bucks buys over twice the displacement than the first $1398

I think you will find that the bucci kit requires your barrels as excange cores. Every overbore kit I have ever bought has required them.

as far as reliability, who makes the pistons in the bucci kit?
The Pistal pistons supplied by kaemna in their kit are top quality. BCM supplies them with all their big bore kits. I have run them in two racebikes with no issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
blade625CT said:
why would you spend the time and money for only 42cc of extra displacement, when another $262 bucks buys you the max 86cc overbore [98mm] That last $262 bucks buys over twice the displacement than the first $1398

I think you will find that the bucci kit requires your barrels as excange cores. Every overbore kit I have ever bought has required them.

as far as reliability, who makes the pistons in the bucci kit?
The Pistal pistons supplied by kaemna in their kit are top quality. BCM supplies them with all their big bore kits. I have run them in two racebikes with no issues.

the Bucci kit doesn't require cylinders for exchange, not for the 900 and not for the 1000, some kits though they do require them.

I guess if I could read the site I'd be more interested...lol
 

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JDuc said:
the Bucci kit doesn't require cylinders for exchange, not for the 900 and not for the 1000, some kits though they do require them.

I guess if I could read the site I'd be more interested...lol
I guess I should have been more accurate. Actually, no big bore kits "require" them, but as a core exchange it shaves substantial dough off the cost. I'm surprised that bucci doesn't want them too. I mean...what are you or I going to do with our old jugs anyway? They bore them out, nikasil plate them, and put them on the shelf for the next guy.

If you look at the top of the page on the kaemena site, next to the "pure TEC" logo, it says "english". just click on it, and it will convert the webpage and everything else for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
it's hard to get a good feel on the power gains from those numbers that they provide....I'm guessing that the 85 hp that they mention is at the wheel, since the 1000DS motor produces 95 hp at the crank...then they mention 115nm which is something like 85 ft.lb to us Americans...so that's like a 25 ft. lb. torque increase since at the crank they claim 70 ft. lb. on the Ducati web site?

they also did head work and a full exhaust, as well as air-box mod...right? I'm reading that correctly, right?

what about cams? are they avaliable for the 1000DS? lighweight crank and rods?

I'd like to know ALL that is avaliable out there for the 1000DS. I'm one of those people who likes to have all the facts and pick and choose what I want to do once i have all of the information in front of me....make sense?

thanks for the info btw!
 

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iirc, bcm makes a big bore kit for the 1000ds motor. not sure of the displacement, though. 1040? 1080?
 

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A big bore kit and/or hc forged Pistal pistons will add some nice torque and throttle response down low, it will also smooth out power band in the 3-6k range which many find useful as a street bike. Transition from partial throttle to full throttle at nearly all speeds is also improved. Engine braking will also be increased. It should also be noted that some of the same can be accomplished with lighter flywheel for substantially le$$, although w/o the gains in max. torque output of course.

If you're looking for more hp, it depends on how much. The stock head porting will only flow efficiently up to around 7800 revs, witnessed by the published hp curves and Ducati's claim of max hp occurring at 7750rpm. VeeTwo of Australia does offer a hotter cam that adds 20* of inlet duration and substantially higher lift on both intake and exhaust lobes. The cams are available individually or in a kit including the 98mm Pistal hc pistons and barrels and cpu mapping. The kit lists for something around $1,800 USD and shows the obvious big increases in torque, however only 8 hp gain, peaking at same rpm as stock. This kit alone seems to offer marginal value, at least if you're seeking gains in hp. I mean we're increasing displacement roughly 8% and netting a hp gain of roughly...8%. Now obviously if the engine were able to breathe efficiently at higher revs, those lumpier cams could actually do there intended job and we might see some REAL substantial hp gains. Guy Martin claims with proper porting of 1000DS heads, including installation of 47mm intake, 41mm exhaust (stock is 45/40), some reshaping of combustion chambers AND the hotter cams AND the big bore kit AND the remapped ECU, these motors could actually produce 115hp at the rear wheel! That folks is 999 territory. Of course the cost for all these goodies, along with of course an open air box and free breathing exhaust, would be in the $5kUSD range.

The good news is that the SS chassis could easily handle the power gains and the resulting bike would likely have a better power to weight ratio than a 999R. I'd be a bit concerned using stock body work about cooking that rear cylinder, probably a good idea to strip off at least the lower cowl fairing, maybe even turn it into a streetfighter looking bike.

If you were concerned about getting your $$ out at some point down the road, I'd probably tell you to get a SBK, I think most buyers would balk at paying more for a used SS, no matter how tricked out, than for a new version of same. I'd also probably not recommend such a kit upgrade be installed in a Monster, SportClassic or MTS as I really do not think those chassis' are up to the task of handling the torque or top end of such a beastly motor. The biggest downside of such a project, besides the cost of course, is there appears to be no intermediate steps to acheiving the end result. Installing the VeeTwo kit alone w/o proper porting seems to net minimal returns relative to cost and future porting would once again require bike and motor disassembly.

If you proceed with this project, keep in mind you'll also need to upgrade clutch springs, possibly install a slipper clutch and Nichols flywheel as well. A crank balancing ($250) and Carillo rods ($600) would also be added to itinerary if it were my bike and I planned on getting to that high revving power band often. If you do indulge yourself in such an endeavor, i certainly wish you well and hope the end result is what you were after. Please post dyno numbers if possible, including a baseline value for your stock setup prior to project, if possible. Take care.
 

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bigmac said:
VeeTwo of Australia does offer a hotter cam that adds 20* of inlet duration and substantially higher lift on both intake and exhaust lobes.
I would stay away from the veetwo cams. A friend ran them last season in his '03 1000SS racebike and they repeatedly destroyed his valve seals [three times]. The lift is too radical. To get around the issue you either have to grind the rockers, or run with no seals. Regardless...by the end of the season, the cams were showing substantial wear and were removed.

A crank balancing ($250) and Carillo rods ($600) would also be added to itinerary if it were my bike and I planned on getting to that high revving power band often.
I agree 100%

I sent my crank, and purchased my rods from Ben Fox: www.foxperformanceengines.com

I spent yesterday installing the rods and reassembling my motor
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Thanks again for all of the great info guys!

building the bottom end of the motor is already a given if I take on this project.

I COULD go buy a 1000DS SS, or...I could wait till I find a good price on a 1000DS motor, then sit on it, wait for a deal on a big bore kit, sit on it, etc...build the motor OUT of the bike, then swap it in in a weekend (hopefully) so I wouldn't be out of a bike for too long.


So, I'm gathering that the VeeTwo cams are out, are their any other options?

On the crank, what benefits are there to a knife edge? Less drag? I'm guessing that with a polished crank you have less drag? Is this the benefit? What other benefits are there from this? Is this the same reason for the knife edge? Would paying the extra for the stage 3 be worth it? Also, what's with the SPS crank? How much weight does the reduction shave off? I'm guessing that if I were to do this WITH light weight pistons, a light weight flywheel might be too much? Or no? With these mods, will I raise my red line? i read on down that page and got some basic info on these questions, is there anything else anyone would want to add to it?

Would y'all recomend sending my heads to this guy for head work, or to someone else?

Sorry for all of the questions, I'm fairly new to the bike engine game....and I'm no engineer!
 

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so what are you going to do for engine management?...PCIII?..Techalusion?....and I assume with all of this you are planning on bigger or modified throttle bodies and injectors?....and full exhaust as well as opened airbox...so you can unleash the full potential of the modifications....
 

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Discussion Starter #18
that's why I'm doing the research first....this isn't going to happen any time soon mind you

I believe we already mentioned the airbox and the exhaust

as for the fuel management, I've asked the question already, I'm just waiting for some more info

it's like you want to shut this project down before it ever gets started or something zooom, why is that?
 

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not trying to shut it down....it just seems like since you are going into it....go full bore or not at all....it just seems some people go into bottom end way too often and put money in without doing everything else to unleash the full potential of going into the motor....and I'd hate for this to end up being another one of those kind of projects....that is why I am asking is all...I am not trying to shut it down...I just want to see the full potential of this flourish....and I appreciate the fact that you are trying to research it all now before getting into it and finding yourself hip deep!...and I realize you aren't doing it all tommorrow...that this is a project you are putting it all together for putting in like maybe next winter or so....somewhere down the line anyways.....
 

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For my SS1000DS, I'll discuss it with Kaemna, and go from there. They're close (well, at least the same continent).

I discussed things with Guy at MBP before doing the ST2 motor, and we agreed on what to do before I even took the motor apart.

Tom
 
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