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Discussion Starter #1
Man, this rockers issue is pissing me off. My 2000 748S had 4 badly worn rockets within 5600 miles, although I don't know how often the previous owner changed the oil, nor whether he properly allowed the oil flow pressure to the heads to build before riding off after a startup.

Now, after blowing the 748 motor (my fault), I replaced it with a good looking 996 motor, and have just checked the rockers/cams on THIS motor (supposedly less than 6K miles on it - and THIS motor has bad rockers.

http://motodyn.com/ducsquish/index/index-Pages/Image62.html

That makes it rockers failures on 100% of the SBKs I've personally owned, both within 6K miles. I replace the oil with Mobil 1 15W/50 car synth every 500 miles or every trackday, whichever comes first (use the bike primarily for track days) - and ALWAYS let them idle for 2 mins or so to build oil flow to the heads, after starting.

Now, the question is - whether I can get MBP replacements before my Grattan trackday weekend in early May, already paid for..... :( :(
 

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Mr BaldySan

How are the cam lobes?
In one of you pictures one seemed to be a bit marginal.

Hard to tell with photos, though....
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The one lobe looks like it's just starting to gall up. Not too bad. I think I can polish it out. If necessary, I'll swap out a cam or two from the 748 motor.
 

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Senior Moment
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Give Nichols a call (408)845-0911 and talk with Jim or Josh on Tuesday. Make it Josh, I think Jim's going to be at Thunderhill Raceway Park on Tuesday/Wednesday.....

anyway, they carry megacycle-treated rockers instock and will exchange them for your crappy ones for about $89 each. And the megacycle will never flake again - guaranteed.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
thx Mark
 

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Try Bruce Meyers personally! There is a new game in town at about 50 bucks a pop! He's been using it on his 748RS and the rockers are lasting with no problems! We all know what the RS cams are like!

DLC = Diamond Like Coating


DLC coating has been awesome. I've been testing them for a year now. I am running them in Rob Nigl's 250 racebike, in my RS (so BUY IT already and check 'em out!), in The Taxi (Vahan the Meat Man's Thunderbike) and in Steve Terbreuggen's 748 endurance bike down in Florida. I had some "bad" OEM rockers stripped, coated and polished. I only had a small batch done. Some each of 2V and 4V. Coating was actually called casidiam and ran just under $50 each rocker including strip, coat, polish and shipping. Happy to make another order if anyone wants to ship me their bad rockers.

Here's the process below.....

http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=623#_Properties_of_Diamond-Like
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yup, I'm toying with that idea as well. Have enough rockers to play with just not much time, though.
I've read this article before. DLC is what Suzuki use on their GSXR1000 forks (the black sliders) - it is supposed to be harder and have lower friction than the gold titanium nitride coatings used by most of the others.
 

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Bobaganoosh
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The other option which I have not seen anyone do, but considering for my bike is Cryo Forging. I cryo'ed my brakes and clutch and so far its a made a huge difference in wear. It could have the same benefit to cams and rockers.

"This one-time process tightens grain structure creating a denser microstructure while increasing surface area. This improves the path of energy and provides increased stress relief and dimensional stability. The bottom line — components last longer and perform better."

This is the company I have been using and they have tons of info on their site.
http://www.nwcryo.com/index.html
 

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Synergy said:
The other option which I have not seen anyone do, but considering for my bike is Cryo Forging. I cryo'ed my brakes and clutch and so far its a made a huge difference in wear. It could have the same benefit to cams and rockers.

This is the company I have been using and they have tons of info on their site.
http://www.nwcryo.com/index.html

I changed my oil breather today and while eveything was off decided i am going to send in all 8 of my openers to someone, spare myself the head ache later. if the price is in LBS, it seems the Cyo is worth it. (about $25)

And...you've done a lot of work to your bike, it'll be a while for i can match it, nice thing is i don't care about suspension upgrade. about that, how did your forks turn out?
 

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I've got a pair of heads from a 1998 748 that had 8900 miles on it before a belt broke (I bought the pair to practice my valve adjustments). All 8 openers are absolutely shot. Now, I have 5600 miles on my 2002 748 and am doing a valve check/adjustment on it. I have only worked on the horizontal head and three openers look pretty good, but one is marginal (in my opinion). The local Ducati dealer said they'd probably reused that one opener, but I've opted to just buy two new rockers and change out the two intake openers (the two that were the worse). I'm only being charged $45 per rocker, no exchange, so eventually, I may send a set of openers off to be megacycled. I'm hoping my vertical head's rockers look better than the horizontal ones......and everyone says that the 2002 bikes aren't supposed to have this rocker problem. Ha!
 

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Desmo demon, what's the color of your opening rockers on your 2002 748? Grey or gold?
The gold ones(ref ending by 5A or 7A) are crap.
The grey ones(ref ending by 8A, used since 2003) are known to be reliable.
 

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El_Gladiator said:
Desmo demon, what's the color of your opening rockers on your 2002 748? Grey or gold?
The gold ones(ref ending by 5A or 7A) are crap.
The grey ones(ref ending by 8A, used since 2003) are known to be reliable.
Naturally, they are gold (a darker gold than the ones out of the '98 748, though).
 

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Not to sound stupid, but I will. What is the concern with the rockers flaking? I heard of this problem before I bought my 748, but still wonder what damage could be caused by not changing them
 

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mig1221 said:
Not to sound stupid, but I will. What is the concern with the rockers flaking? I heard of this problem before I bought my 748, but still wonder what damage could be caused by not changing them

use the forum search engine, that ought to clear things up, give some pics as well.

the short of it is, the rockers open and close your valves with a cam. the cam hits the rocker arm to either open or close the valve. where the cam meets on the rockers is a hard plated "chrome." that chrome flakes off always (it is a matter of when for each one), when it does the cam eats into, makes a groove in, where it contacts the rocker. that ruins the the rocker arm and makes the valve clearances out of spec, something you don't won't both the rockers and an engine running out of spec. in some cases, probably mine, the cams can also go bad.
 

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Rockers are $. New cams are $$$. Stay on top of that rocker situation.



Namor said:
use the forum search engine, that ought to clear things up, give some pics as well.

the short of it is, the rockers open and close your valves with a cam. the cam hits the rocker arm to either open or close the valve. where the cam meets on the rockers is a hard plated "chrome." that chrome flakes off always (it is a matter of when for each one), when it does the cam eats into, makes a groove in, where it contacts the rocker. that ruins the the rocker arm and makes the valve clearances out of spec, something you don't won't both the rockers and an engine running out of spec. in some cases, probably mine, the cams can also go bad.
 

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Desmo_Demon said:
......and everyone says that the 2002 bikes aren't supposed to have this rocker problem. Ha!
"Everyone" is f-in' wrong. The only way you'll get away from it is to get less valves. THe 2&3 valvers don't have this problem. There have been reports of this hapenning on testastrettas, but very infrequently. Very.
 

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mig1221 said:
Not to sound stupid, but I will. What is the concern with the rockers flaking? I heard of this problem before I bought my 748, but still wonder what damage could be caused by not changing them
Rockers flake, valve clearance goes out of spec, underlying softer rocker material (metal) gets smeared onto the cams (galling)...I've seen two bikes bad enough that the valve stems broke at the retaining rings and dropped the heads into the cylinders. Usually, if ignored, you just end up having to replace rockers and cams.
 

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Desmo_Demon said:
Naturally, they are gold (a darker gold than the ones out of the '98 748, though).
Funny....they're still crap. They still flake in large numbers. The older rockers (prior to 2001) were a reddish color. Post-2001 were kinda goldish. They both flake.
 
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