Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner

21 - 40 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
Discussion Starter #21
New plugs finally arrived - they're pre-gapped to 1/16" but it's always good to check just in case
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
Question for the experts: I've changed belts and adjusted valves a few times on both my 1098 and 1198 but I've always just marked the belts and counted teeth. This time around I ordered the Timing Belt Roller Tool. So, with the timing mark on the lay shaft lined up with the mark on the engine case, the Timing Belt Roller tool installed and the cam pulleys loose, I can install the belt without bothering with counting teeth. I can just install the belt and set the tension to 110HZ and then tighten the bolts holding the cam pulleys in place, correct?

I'm still waiting on the tool to arrive but I'm in no hurry....



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
I’d still count and mark teeth just to be sure. I found the holding tool can still move a bit, maybe enough to leave you a tooth off.
Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
I’d still count and mark teeth just to be sure. I found the holding tool can still move a bit, maybe enough to leave you a tooth off.
Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He isn't talking about the tool that locks the cam pulleys in place.
The tool he refers to locks the cams into position.
You lock the cams into position, they cannot move. You loosen the pulley retaining screws, the cams cannot move, the cam pulleys can move freely a few inches in either direction of rotation.

Using the cam locking tool, there is no need to count teeth.

Question for the experts: I've changed belts and adjusted valves a few times on both my 1098 and 1198 but I've always just marked the belts and counted teeth. This time around I ordered the Timing Belt Roller Tool. So, with the timing mark on the lay shaft lined up with the mark on the engine case, the Timing Belt Roller tool installed and the cam pulleys loose, I can install the belt without bothering with counting teeth. I can just install the belt and set the tension to 110HZ and then tighten the bolts holding the cam pulleys in place, correct?

I'm still waiting on the tool to arrive but I'm in no hurry....
As above, no need to count teeth. Do as you described, rotate engine a few times and recheck/adjust tension as required.
What is the part number for the tool you have coming?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
Thanks for the info. That’s what I was thinking since the cams are locked in position.

The part number for the tool is 887651623.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
Discussion Starter #26
I’d still count and mark teeth just to be sure. I found the holding tool can still move a bit, maybe enough to leave you a tooth off.
Cheers
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As SteathAu pointed out, this is a different tool than you're thinking of. I've used the little pulley locking tool but they never seem to fit right. I have 4 of them so you'd think one would actually work but, they always seem to allow the cams to rotate just bit.
I haven't bothered with that tool in years - just use a crown nut socket to rotate the vertical intake cam back just enough to get the belt on instead.

This is the tool I recently purchased though. This one locks the cams in place and allows for the pulleys to rotate independently. I thought it would be an interesting experiment to mark the belts/pulleys as I normally do, then tension them with the new tool installed and see how much of a difference it makes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,036 Posts
It's a 103 outside....I live in flip-flops :grin2:
Is that all? It hit 114 here .... :smile2:


... I'm a big sissy .. I'm not going to pull the carbs from my 900 CR until tonight after the cement cools off ...


:laugh:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
As SteathAu pointed out, this is a different tool than you're thinking of. I've used the little pulley locking tool but they never seem to fit right. I have 4 of them so you'd think one would actually work but, they always seem to allow the cams to rotate just bit.
I haven't bothered with that tool in years - just use a crown nut socket to rotate the vertical intake cam back just enough to get the belt on instead.

This is the tool I recently purchased though. This one locks the cams in place and allows for the pulleys to rotate independently. I thought it would be an interesting experiment to mark the belts/pulleys as I normally do, then tension them with the new tool installed and see how much of a difference it makes.

From the pictures, it looks like it might be difficult accessing the pulley retaining screws with it in position.
It will be interesting to see photos once you receive it, and in use.

I've got the tools for the 1098. Works on 1198 engines and up, just use the tool for the horizontal cylinder on both horizontal and vertical.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
It looks to me like the cutout on each side of the tool matches the bolt pattern of the pulley so, I’m hoping that won’t be an issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
Discussion Starter #35
Looks like I have a few adjustments to make. Nothing too far out of spec but, I might as well make the needed corrections while I'm in there. Gonna measure everything again with a different set of feeler gauges before I start ordering shims, just to make sure....

When I did the valves on my 1198 I was surprised to find that all of the opening shims were the same size and all of the closing shims were the same size as well. This was on a bone stock engine with 2,000 miles so I'm assuming it came that way from the factory. Kind of curious to see if the Diavel is the same.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
Discussion Starter #36 (Edited)
So I went through the clearances again with a different set of feeler gauges and basically averaged out the results between the measurements.

Another question for the experts - the service manual gives specs for "Operation" and "Inspection" with "operation" being tighter tolerances. I'm guessing those are clearances one would see once the engine is at operating temperature? As far as the the adjustments go, do you guys aim for the middle of the spec?


Damn, my blind ass fucked up lol Had my old glasses on when I wrote down the initial measurements and somehow mixed up the opening/closing locations on the data sheet....
Just got my new contacts on Thursday and when I wrote down the measurements today I was like DOH! No wonder so many where out of spec :nerd:



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
635 Posts
On the opening rockers I set mine as per the inspection tolerance on the tight side, on the closing side i set them in the middle, makes them idle nicer, gives a longer service interval before i have to pull it apart and do it again, and most importantly, the tighter clearance means less lash against the collets so less broken ones.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
Discussion Starter #38
Thanks - Think I might tighten up a couple of the closers a little. Otherwise, they look pretty good to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
Discussion Starter #39 (Edited)
Well, the new Belt Roller Timing Tool finally arrived - kind of expected something a little less shabby for $140 but, what the hell. It's gonna get greasy anyway.

There is no chance you can reach the torx bolts on the pulleys with a standard length socket but, with a set of long bits you can access them just fine.

One closer adjusted, belts are on and adjusted....just have to slap this pig back together again. I guess it's about an 18 beer job :laugh:

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
Discussion Starter #40 (Edited)
So I finally got some time to conduct my little experiment - I initially installed the belts by counting teeth and tensioned the belts to 110Hz. I also checked the tension on the opposing side of the belts on each cylinder
Then I installed the Timing Belt Roller Tool, loosened the retaining bolts on the pulleys and checked the tension - changed by 1Hz. I removed the tension on the belts and re-tensioned them to 110Hz and the tension on the opposing side of the remained unchanged.
The pulleys did not move even a perceptible amount....

Can someone explain to me what the purpose of this tool is besides eliminating the need to count teeth? I've heard that there is a risk of altering the timing and that the belt tension would somehow be uneven when installing the belts by counting teeth as opposed to using this tool. That does not appear to be the case with my little experiment although, I will admit that this is a single test on one motorcycle and nothing more.

The tool I used is a Gates Sonic Belt Tension Meter Model 507C which I use on a daily basis for work.

I made the yellow mark on the cam/pulley before loosening the pulleys - the white mark was made during the original assembly.

 
21 - 40 of 40 Posts
Top