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Discussion Starter #1
I did my 24K service over the winter on my 2V 1100S multi. I actually started on the valves at the beginning of December, measured shims and ordered new ones. Then Christmas came, then it was way too cold in the garage for awhile. So the fuel lines were drained and the battery was out of the bike for 4 months. At any rate, last week I got the new shims in, put on new timing belts, new oil and filter, new air filter (OEM paper one). Today I refitted the tank and battery and tried to start it.

When I pushed the start button it turned over and coughed a few times but did not start. So far so good. I figured the fuel filter and lines would take a bit to fill up with fuel. I tried the starter again, more hopeful coughs but no start. The battery is new and fully charged, and I put stabilizer into the gas in the fall. I finally got it to start by opening the throttle a bit, but it sounded rough and stalled when I closed the throttle. I ran it up to maybe 4K, kept it going for a minute or so between 2K and 4K rpms to see if it would smooth out. It didn't. it still sounded crappy so I closed the throttle and it stalled. It would not start again, not even a cough, regardless of throttle position. I tried it again in about 20 minutes and had the exact same experience: bike would start only with some throttle and sounded and felt like sh#t. After it had run for a bit with throttle I closed the throttle and it stalled, and would not start again.

I pulled the belt covers and double-checked that the timing was right and all the markes lined up.

I pulled a plug, and it was dry even after prolonged cranking. Exhaust pipes were equally warm on both cylinders. I swapped the fuel hoses on the bottom of the tank, thinking maybe it mattered which one was "OUT" and "IN", but this had no effect. I did NOT change out the fuel filter, the bike was running like a top when I put it away in November.

Anybody have any suggestions what to check? I re-drained the tank and stripped off all the fairings, just need to disconnect the fuel lines and electrical to be able to pull the tank but ran out of time tonight. Maybe I disconnected a sensor or something? The only thing I recall being in the way was the spark plug lead for the RH vertical cylinder, I removed it as it ran right over the valve cover and was a PITA to work around.

When I disconnected the fuel lines in the fall the fuel drained out of them. Is it okay to leave them empty for 4 months? I bagged and taped the ends.

Any help greatly appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
V timing belt was 1 tooth off. Adjusted it and bike fired up immediately and idled comfortably. I wouldn't think it would be terribly difficult for Ducati to put the cam and layshaft reference marks so that they line up EXACTLY... My H cam pulley dot was just to the right of the mark on the engine, and the V was just to the left when the layshaft was mark was perfectly lined up with the mark on the clutch cover. I really had to squint and make my best guess as to which of 2 belt positions brought the two marks closer together. with the tensioners loose it was not at all obvious which teeth the belt should go onto. I should have taken pictures when pulling them off I guess. Next time.
 

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I ran it up to maybe 4K,
V timing belt was 1 tooth off
Given that I would either do a leakdown test or simply spin the valves to make sure the valve did not hit the piston and bend. IIRC you have 7mm stems and BIG valves the valve can be slightly bent and at high enough rpms fail. Better safe than sorry.

You very well could be fine I have seen (heard) valves hitting the piston and not bend but I have also seen them cause a major failure. Only way to know is to check.

Long time ago a customer did his own valves and was off one tooth on his 900, he heard it did not sound right but took it for a ride anyway. No problem until he tried to pass a car and revved the engine higher at which point the valves hit and then went sideways.

If you place the piston at TDC and disconnect the closer you can spin the valve and witness the valve head through a spark plug hole. Spin the valve and look for any out of round or orbiting of the head. Do both valves on the head that was off.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
FWIW, when the belts went on (wrong, the first time) I turned the engine over quite a few times by hand and couldn't feel anything... I had the bike up on the rear stand in 6th gear and turned the engine over by rotating the rear wheel.

I have a compression tester and will see if V and H differ significantly to start as I don't have the setup to do a leakdown test. Too bad it's the V cylinder as every single panel needs to come off, tank needs to be drained and removed, in order to get to the valve cover. Sigh. Oh well I'm getting pretty fast at putting this bike together and taking it apart... and like you say better safe than sorry. It's supposed to rain here all weekend, looks like I will be inspecting the valves.

thanks very much for your help.
 

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No problem I have seen it too many times and some times there is no issue but at higher rpm's things change. I believe you that it would not hit spinning by hand I have seen that myself. Some times it does but some times .........

Best of luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
So, weird stuff today. As I mentioned, the V belt was off by one tooth, which I adjusted after which the engine started immediately and idled smoothly. I did a compression test on the V cylinder, holding my breath as I cranked it over. 150 psi, no issues. Phew! I put the tester on the H cyl for a comparison and... what the hell.... 110 psi! I just bought this bike with about 20K mi at the end of August and didn't really put many miles on it last year. Problem may be pre-existing, not sure, but I am thinking I need to pull the H head and have a look. I did try to drop the valves enough to see the valve head, I put the H cyl at TDC and removed the closer shim. I could not see anything in the spark plug hole. I rotated the piston down and dropped the valve as much as I dared, a cm or so, and still did not see the valve appear in the hole.

So, now I have some questions:

1. Do you think I should do a leakdown test on the V cylinder given its' stellar performance on the compression test? Would you do one on the H cylinder, and what info would it give me?

2. What's my next step? Do I remove the head and put a dial gauge on the valves looking excess runout? How do I tell whether or not I am losing pressure through valves or via rings?

3. Can I remove remove the H head without removing the engine from the frame? It looks like there's plenty of clearance to do it. The cylinder studs are slightly less than 6" long from the cylinder to the top of the head, and I've got about 9" between the forward end of the H cylinder and the forks. If I can do this then removing the head is much less of a big deal. I guess I'd still need to remove the airbox and throttle bodies, at least enough to pull the H intake duct away from the head.

4. If I do remove the head am I going to need to replace the head gasket and/or oil passage seals?

Thanks much.
 

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there's a local scrambler that shit itself a week or so ago and the owner has been told he had the vertical belt one tooth off. broke the inlet valve, parts of which ended up in the horizontal due to the joined inlet. i wouldn't have though it'd last that long or not be noticeable beforehand, but there you go.

do a leak down on it. is the horizontal cam right?
 

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Hi, yes you can get the heads off with the engine in place. Have mine off at the moment while I get the valve guides replaced.

Thought I'd check for wear between valve and guide while on with clearances, found wobble on exhaust valves and a little on inlet both cylinders.

Mine's on 26k miles.
 

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Hi Bradblack,

thought I'd give you an update on my MTS1000DS now it has new guides and seats recut.

I built the heads back to the motor and put a clock on the valves to dial in the cam wheels (found a spec somewhere), vertical cyl was out (forgot which way). Clearances all set and ready to go.

I run an Innovate LC-2 wideband sensor on both cylinder exhausts and tweak my own maps - anyhow out for the first test (UK), engine up to temp, recorded a log with my LC-2s (ScanM5X) and it ran lean behaved lean too! I was pleased as to me it was breathing stronger. While away touring Spain I kept updating fuelling maps for each cylinder and now it runs very well in all rpm range. Surprised me how different my vertical and horizontal fuelling maps to each other have ended up, the sensors are the same distance down the pipes and I've no leaks at the joints.


Thinking of getting an ST3s! If I can find one.


Cheers.
 
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