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Hi Swagger
This has gone on for some time and must be frustrating by now. Lets go back a bit, always lazy to start, new belts. Who fitted the belts? Is the valve timing right? Were the shims done? What was the comp?
You asked if injectors prime cylinder when ignition goes to on. That is a no way, the fuel pump primes up the pressure in the lines, the injectors only fire once you are cranking. if the injectors fired on power up you would get a rich mixture by turning ignition on and off then on again then cranking.
I was involved in a small four cylinder race car that had a big cam then the owner decided to stroke it and no check the valve head to piston crown clearance. He had starting dramas for 2 race seasons before it finally gave up which surprised me no end. But it had the same fast an slow cranking as you describe.
You mentioned the possibility of broken up air filter, if that debris is caught in valve seats there will be little compression and fuel air mix can ignite in exhaust (backfire).
Stall then not start on a ride, unless your charging system or starter motor (not Starter clutch) is shot it should have cranked. It is cranking now so rule out starter. Forget charging system while you are on a charger. You are cranking and not starting. Go through the basic elements of an engine running; Air, fuel, compression, spark. Do a comp test if numbers are right spray some aerostart in the plug holes immediately before you put the plugs back in. Don't muck around attempt to start straight away, If it runs for 2 rotations on aerostart and then stops you have a fuel problem. If it does not check for spark.
Best of luck
 

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i'm still not convinced it's actually cranking. remove the clutch cover and put some black tape on one spring cap and film that.

otherwise, take it to someone who knows what they're doing. if you've been going at it this long with no result, you probably don't. jmo.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
i'm still not convinced it's actually cranking. remove the clutch cover and put some black tape on one spring cap and film that.

otherwise, take it to someone who knows what they're doing. if you've been going at it this long with no result, you probably don't. jmo.
You should be able to see it in the last video I posted. You might have to lower the playback speed to see one of them rotate, but I can assure you that it is.

Last night after another deep search I found these two vids, which before the install sounds exactly alike to mine. A cough on the first two cranks, and then nothing but a cycle after that. The leads are supposedly the only thing done to the bike.


I went ahead and purchased the kit. If it fails to fix the problem, then I'll go down the sprag route once I take it off and inspect it.

Hi Swagger
This has gone on for some time and must be frustrating by now. Lets go back a bit, always lazy to start, new belts. Who fitted the belts? Is the valve timing right? Were the shims done? What was the comp?
You asked if injectors prime cylinder when ignition goes to on. That is a no way, the fuel pump primes up the pressure in the lines, the injectors only fire once you are cranking. if the injectors fired on power up you would get a rich mixture by turning ignition on and off then on again then cranking.
I was involved in a small four cylinder race car that had a big cam then the owner decided to stroke it and no check the valve head to piston crown clearance. He had starting dramas for 2 race seasons before it finally gave up which surprised me no end. But it had the same fast an slow cranking as you describe.
You mentioned the possibility of broken up air filter, if that debris is caught in valve seats there will be little compression and fuel air mix can ignite in exhaust (backfire).
Stall then not start on a ride, unless your charging system or starter motor (not Starter clutch) is shot it should have cranked. It is cranking now so rule out starter. Forget charging system while you are on a charger. You are cranking and not starting. Go through the basic elements of an engine running; Air, fuel, compression, spark. Do a comp test if numbers are right spray some aerostart in the plug holes immediately before you put the plugs back in. Don't muck around attempt to start straight away, If it runs for 2 rotations on aerostart and then stops you have a fuel problem. If it does not check for spark.
Best of luck
I installed the belts myself. I used n-track tuner and set them to 107 and 105 for the H and V cylinders respectively. Anything with regards to valve work is not known to me at the time, but the bike ran fine when I went to look at it initially, and has after I traded for it. I can have it in neutral and rev the full range with no problems. Compression test is something I'd like to do later in the year when I have more time back from school.

My question regarding the injectors was brought up as I saw a video where one was spraying at key on while the other wasn't, so I was unsure as to what was supposed to be happening. I had figured that a small amount was to be sprayed to prime the cylinders, bad guess I suppose.

The air filter only is deteriorating at the rubber lip, outside of the airbox. The filter itself however has degraded overtime. I assume these are the originals:

979171
I have cleaned them out after letting them soak and dry. They were far worse than what is visible. The chances of debris making it past the filters large enough to change tolerances is low imo, aside from sand.

I partially blame the stall then no start on the battery charger I used initially to charge the battery, and myself. I do not believe it was fully charged on the initial use, but it still was powerful enough to start the bike. The ride I went on also I would say was not long enough (at most 15 minutes) to provide any meaningful charging back to the battery for future start attempts without going on a tender. Once the bike does start up the VM was reading a steady 14.0.

I'm curious to see just how much these hicap leads fix peoples problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Kit finally came in on Thursday after having to wait for MotoE to wait on their cable supplier. After taking off the battery box, I noticed that the heat-shield had been previously tampered with and looked in poor condition with multiple bends in it near the bottom, as if someone had tried to peel it up. Got that off and noticed the wiring to have also been tampered with, as none of the OE tape was left, wires strewn across, and connectors hanging loose. The rectifier didn't look OEM either, and found out last night after looking around and watching a few videos that it's a Rick's mosfet style, so I'm glad to know that hopefully that won't go out on me. Cleaned it up but I did not piggy back the battery to solenoid + lead, or the battery to ground leads. The kit's cables were simply too large to fit between the battery box and samco hose kit on the water pump housing.

Started it but still the same result as before, crank but won't run. It will backfire near the airbox at the start of a starting cycle now through both cylinders, and has blown off the hose clamps for the intake on both. At the end of the starting cycle before it cuts out there is a slight stutter that can be heard through the exhaust but doesn't produce any noticeable affect towards starting. Clutch is still rotating just fine CCW. I attempted to use different idle lever positions, but nothing changed. Did not touch throttle.

Went back inside to read more forums to see for anything else similar and found this from '07:

I have no clue about TPS issues the bike may have, and currently do not own any of the software/cables needed to access that info. Nearest shop is roughly 2 hours away, and from what I've seen is that a $7 cable can connect the bike to my laptop and I need the software to read it. Also read that JP Diag is no longer in existence, so I'm not sure what my options are for that. I feel as if I were to start looking into more TPS stuff I would be going down a rabbit hole to find a problem completely unrelated to it.

I've also done a fair bit of reading too on coils being faulty and needing to test resistance, but need to take the tank off to check rear coil and at that point I'd like to check compression for both cylinders. My dad was standing beside the bike while attempting to start it and he's suggesting a timing issue, but I don't exactly see how it could be that. I marked the previous belts and the cams, counted the gaps between dots, and transferred the dots to the new belts. Unless the nut has gone lose causing a lack of tension, I don't see how the belts could have affected anything. I'm pretty confident with my work I did on the belts.

And every single thing I've read/watched/listened to with regards of the sprag make completely opposite sounds of what my bike is making. It's obvious to hear when one has completely gone and it's just the starter and gear spinning on their own, but my bike is still positively rotating the clutch while starting without showing signs of slipping. I'm really unsure at this point what there is to do without having it assessed by someone else.
 

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Hmmmm... not sure if this will help or not, but at this point, it certainly won't hurt to check. A couple of years ago I was getting ready to take my bike in for service in March. It had been wintering in my office, indoors, on the charger since the previous November. When I tried to start it, it sounded just like yours. Turned over, but refused to start. After 10 minutes of frustration in trying to figure out what was going on, I happed to have my head by the tank on one of the attempts and heard a distinct "pissing" sound from inside the tank.

Fortunately, the fuel level was low enough that the split that had appeared in the fuel lines was above the fuel level in the tank, and it was literally pissing fuel through the split. Pump was working, and could be heard priming when the bike was turned on, but on start no fuel was getting to the injectors.

I'm not saying that's what your problem is, but just as you've been chasing down everything else but, I too was headed down the same path.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Well I’ve gone ahead and pruchased the champion rg4hc’s in an attempt to see if a copper plug makes a difference between the iridium NGKs. It’s the only change I’ve made between it starting successfully and now not at all.
 
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