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  Topic Review (Newest First)
Today 9:21 am
Rex Coil 7 I know one thing for absolute certainty .... the left thumb rear brake would be highly useful on a motocross track, for all of the same reasons it is useful on road race bikes.

I don't really think that training the left hand to use the rear brake would be that big of a deal. I raced for almost fifteen years before my wife and I moved here to Yuma. We have one of the largest sand dune riding areas in the USA here. In the 1980s three wheeled ATCs and four wheeled "quads" were the massive rage here as well as all over the southwestern quadrant of the USA. Hundreds of thousands of people would come here on big weekends to play in the sand on those 3/4 wheeled ATC/ATVs. Every one of them was outfitted with a thumb throttle from the factory. I, for one, had zero trouble training my right thumb to articulate the thumb throttle on the weekends in the sand, and then ride my motorcycle to work on weekdays which had a twist throttle.

Same with shift patterns; my ATC had a 4-down pattern, while my street bikes had 1d x 3u pattern (I rode Sportsters back then .. 4 speed). The transition was effortless between weekend machines and weekday machines.

Give the human brain a little more credit ... it's actually a highly adaptive biologic computer system.

Today 7:33 am
Pard HTTPS://WWW.MOTORSPORTMAGAZINE.COM/OPINION/MOTOGP

WHY ‘SCOOTER’ MOTOGP BRAKES ARE THE WAY FORWARD

Soon, most MotoGP riders will use scooter-style finger-operated rear brakes, according to Brembo, the Italian company that supplies brakes to the entire MotoGP grid.

Hand-operated rear brakes are nothing new. Mick Doohan switched to a thumb-operated brake in 1993 because his right ankle was fused solid due to injury. Simon Crafar was the first top rider to follow suit because he realised this allowed better control of the rear brake while riding through right-handers when the right foot can’t get to the brake pedal.

In recent years most top riders have tried thumb-operated brakes but it isn’t easy to reprogram the brain to use your left thumb instead of your right foot when you’re braking from 220mph/354km/h.

However, as rear-brake use becomes more important during the critical mid-corner turning phase, more riders are using hand-operated rear brakes, including Fabio Quartararo, Andrea Dovizioso, Danilo Petrucci, Valentino Rossi, Pecco Bagnaia, Jorge Lorenzo and Karel Abraham.

Brembo is working hard on this technology. Most interesting of all are the company’s finger-operated rear brake and its dual-line, four-piston rear caliper, which allows riders to use both hand and foot brakes, with the hand working two pistons and the foot the other too; a good halfway house on the way to solus hand operation. None of this is tech is brand new, but it’s getting more useable for more riders.

Both Rossi and Marc Márquez started using thumb brakes a while back but gave them up as a bad job. Rossi started again in Austria.

“When Valentino first tried the thumb brake there wasn’t enough power,” says Brembo technician Andrea Pellegrini.

“But now we have a better pad compound, developed from WSB, because MotoGP rear discs are steel, like WSB front discs.”

Arguably Brembo’s most important development is the finger-operated brake used this year by Avintia Ducati rider Abraham.

“I think this system is easier for riders,” adds Pellegrini. “It’s more difficult for riders to push the thumb brake when they’re in the corners and it’s much more natural for them to pull a brake lever like they do when they are riding scooters and bicycles. I think next year many more riders will use this system, probably including Marc Márquez.”

And a finger-operated rear brake makes perfect sense now when riders only use the clutch once during the race; at the start.

Of course, there are better ways for riders to get used to hand-operated rear brakes: equip their training bikes and dirt bikes with the same systems. This is what Crafar did before he started using a hand-operated rear brake on the track. Apparently Rossi now has all his dirt bikes set up with hand rear brakes. He, like more and more riders, knows it’s the way forward.

One team is pushing its riders to remove the foot brake entirely because during cornering it’s easy for the rider to touch the lever when he doesn’t want to. There would also be weight-saving benefits.
Aug 4th, 2019 9:44 am
Pard Watch this video to see how unbelievable those among best can be using their foot brake, and how much use it gets!


https://www.facebook.com/MotoGP/vide...wNzA5NDg0NTM1/
Aug 4th, 2019 9:18 am
Rex Coil 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pard View Post
Dovi uses a left hand thumb brake for cornering. Note the two reservoirs on his left bar. One for clutch, one for rear brake.

https://www.brembo.com/en/company/ne...-brembo-brakes

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...ool-press-turn
Two excellent articles! I read both end to end.

I've been a supporter (and proponent) of adding a left hand operated rear brake for a number of years. I brought it up in a 600 forum and got chased off by a gang of squids. I can't help but wonder how long it will be before FIM/AMA Motocross bikes will be outfitted with left hand rear brake actuators. Squaring off a left turn is very easy since the right leg is still on the peg. Squaring a right turn is nearly impossible when your right leg is off the peg and the brake pedal is not available.

I found it interesting in the articles you provided that the Ducati MOTOGP bikes are especially aided with the left hand braking system due to their longer wheelbase and engine characteristics. From what one of those two articles said, the entire Ducati MOTOGP team is using them.

Excellent reading! Thanks for digging them up and posting access to them!!!



(pic = Jorge Lorenzo on a Ducati, left thumb is clearly operating the rear brake - also visible is how impossible it would be for his right foot to operate the rear brake at that point in the corner) ....


.
Aug 4th, 2019 8:26 am
Pard Dovi uses a left hand thumb brake for cornering. Note the two reservoirs on his left bar. One for clutch, one for rear brake.

https://www.brembo.com/en/company/ne...-brembo-brakes

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...ool-press-turn
Jul 14th, 2019 6:29 pm
Pard Wired up the Magura brake light switch wires on the left with the Brembo light switch wires on the right in parallel, and they work as they should.


Took only a few minutes to solder it all up.
Jul 9th, 2019 12:12 pm
Pard
Quote:
Originally Posted by araitim View Post
If you use a banjo pressure switch instead of a banjo bolt on the line running to the caliper it will illuminate the rear light with the front master or the rear once it senses pressure. This method would help eliminate additional wiring up to the handlebars.
https://www.jpcycles.com/product/561...4aAtjfEALw_wcB
That is a good idea, but at this point, I am not interested in having to bleed the system again. The lever switch would be the least amount of fuss, assuming it works.
Jul 9th, 2019 12:07 pm
araitim If you use a banjo pressure switch instead of a banjo bolt on the line running to the caliper it will illuminate the rear light with the front master or the rear once it senses pressure. This method would help eliminate additional wiring up to the handlebars.
https://www.jpcycles.com/product/561...4aAtjfEALw_wcB
Jul 9th, 2019 9:24 am
Pard Question for anyone in the know...

I think I want to have a brake light switch on the left hand rear brake master. The Magura comes with a switch currently not wired up.

Can I splice that switch in line, parallel, with the right hand front brake switch? I assume they will both work fine if either one is depressed, but what happens when both are depressed?

My assumption is that if either plunger switch completes the circuit, lighting up the brake lights, it won't matter if the other switch is on or off in a parallel circuit, the circuit is still complete if wither switch is triggered on, and the tail lights will illuminate.

I will try it out and test that theory, just fishing for info if you have experience.
Jul 9th, 2019 12:27 am
Rex Coil 7 ... I'm diggin' on that thumb lever operated type by IMA. I like that it offers bar-mounted .. and/or .. fork mounted options for the actuator and the fact that the kit is mostly complete, sans hydraulic line (that must be fitted to each application, so they're not included in the kit).

LINK = IMA Thumb Brake - Superbike Source Pty Ltd


Considering it includes both foot operated master cylinder and thumb operated master cylinder, and they are designed to work with one another, there's a little more confidence in it's trustworthy operation. The multiple ways the thumb lever can be adjusted is another well thought through feature.

$499.00 is actually reasonable, all things considered.

I think if the thumb brake is mated with a slipper clutch those two working as an ensemble will actually entirely change the way one rides. Everything from body positioning, right and left foot position on their pegs while cornering, and overtaking in corners will be rethought and adapted to the new ways of controlling the bike the slipper clutch used with the thumb rear brake as a combined ensemble will offer.

Every bit as revolutionary as foot operated gear shifting with left hand clutch was when it was adopted.

I really do believe this.

Imagine how useful it would be on motocross bikes! You could drive into right hand berms every bit as hard as left hand berms since rear braking is no longer dependent on the right foot being on the footpeg to operate the rear brake in right hand turns. Same with being airborne ... foot position on the pegs will no longer be dictated by the need to lock up the rear wheel in mid air to control the bike's attitude in flight. That can be done with the right thumb instead, so foot placement on the footpegs can be focused on body weight distribution rather than being able to operate the rear brake in mid air.

All of these wins! So many wins! I'd bet money left hand rear brake systems will become standard equipment sooner than later.

Yup.
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