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  Topic Review (Newest First)
May 3rd, 2019 10:06 am
chad-ANTIGRAVITYLITHIUMBATTERIES
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old rider View Post
Personally. I'd be very happy to hear a full explanation rather than a quick summary. It's the potential for fire that worries most people rather than the possibility of the battery dying. If the battery or reg/rec catches fire, we potentially lose the whole bike.
So really these two go hand in hand, the protections are put in place to not only prevent the battery from dying to but to protect the battery from being damaged altogether and put into a state where it is susceptible to thermal runaway. How it lays out is as follow,

1. Charging the battery at a standard rate (such as how the bike will charge it) when the battery is over discharged is a scenario that can seriously damage the battery and lead to this. In other words if the voltage on the battery is drained below 10v or so you do not want to jump or bump start the bike as the battery needs to be messaged up slowly until it's back to a normal state and can accept the regular charge rate. Typically we recommend an intelligent lithium charger that has the ability to detect this and charge it properly. What the BMS in the battery is doing is never allowing the battery to get that low so it can not be put in an over discharged state.

2. Another way the battery can be put into thermal runaway is overcharging. A typical charging system should be putting out around 14.4v-14.6v when running at higher RPM's but if it's not functioning correctly and voltage is exceeding past 15v or higher the cells can again be severely damaged. In the same manner the BMS protections cut the battery off from the system if it detects high voltage coming through the charging system.

So what we're really talking about here with the Re-Start series and the BMS is all around protection for the battery stability and functionality. Hopefully that sheds a little light but please feel free to let me know if you have any other questions at all. You can always email me directly as well at [email protected] as I'll see and be able to reply sooner than directly in the forum.
May 2nd, 2019 5:48 pm
Old rider
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad-ANTIGRAVITYLITHIUMBATTERIES View Post
So the quick summary is that you have over discharge, over charge, as well as thermal protections built in. To elaborate a little, the BMS(Battery management system) built into the battery will put it into a sleep mode if any of these conditions outside of normal operating parameters exist. For example, let's say you leave an accessory running, key in the ignition or something that would typically be causing the battery to get drained and eventually over discharged, The battery shuts itself off to prevent this from happening and at the same time does it at a point where you still have enough reserve to be able to stat the bike at least a few times at the touch of a button.

For those interested check out the vendor thread for the special on Ducati batteries going on right now.

https://www.ducati.ms/forums/641-ant...-shipping.html
Personally. I'd be very happy to hear a full explanation rather than a quick summary. It's the potential for fire that worries most people rather than the possibility of the battery dying. If the battery or reg/rec catches fire, we potentially lose the whole bike.
May 2nd, 2019 9:24 am
chad-ANTIGRAVITYLITHIUMBATTERIES
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old rider View Post
It would be good to know what the protections are that built into the ReStart batteries.
Lithium batteries are definitely the future but most of us have been holding fire on them until such time as they are as reliable and safe to install in an older machine as lead acid. If your ReStart batteries have indeed reached that stage, then you could be getting a flood of orders...
So the quick summary is that you have over discharge, over charge, as well as thermal protections built in. To elaborate a little, the BMS(Battery management system) built into the battery will put it into a sleep mode if any of these conditions outside of normal operating parameters exist. For example, let's say you leave an accessory running, key in the ignition or something that would typically be causing the battery to get drained and eventually over discharged, The battery shuts itself off to prevent this from happening and at the same time does it at a point where you still have enough reserve to be able to stat the bike at least a few times at the touch of a button.

For those interested check out the vendor thread for the special on Ducati batteries going on right now.

https://www.ducati.ms/forums/641-ant...-shipping.html
May 2nd, 2019 4:14 am
Old rider
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad-ANTIGRAVITYLITHIUMBATTERIES View Post
Hi everyone, just wanted to chime in here to add a little additional info as we just came back recently as site sponsors.

Essentially the concern with charging here is that a lot of bikes from the mid 80's and older were using old style mechanical voltage regulators. Sure you can test your output but if it's randomly failing, sticking and spiking voltage (which at some point after time it will) you may not catch it. Keep in mind this is also harmful to lead/acid batteries but just not as detrimental as it can be to lithium. So the safe solution here is just updating to modern solid state components that will work in proper tolerance.

While one of the key benefits is weight with lithium batteries it's not always going to make a spectacular difference, especially in heavier bikes but there are other benefits such as physical size, peak performance output, having twice the cranking power, and a longer lifespan when maintained properly. While Tamaran was looking at the AG-1201 which doesn't have any additional protections built in and maintaining becomes extremely vital, it should also be noted that there are options available as well like our RE-START series which have protections built in to help ensure that battery is maintained.

As I mentioned we recently just signed on as sponsors so please feel free to reach out to us with any questions you might have on lithium or any of our products.
It would be good to know what the protections are that built into the ReStart batteries.
Lithium batteries are definitely the future but most of us have been holding fire on them until such time as they are as reliable and safe to install in an older machine as lead acid. If your ReStart batteries have indeed reached that stage, then you could be getting a flood of orders...
May 2nd, 2019 3:19 am
Ventodue
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad-ANTIGRAVITYLITHIUMBATTERIES View Post
Essentially the concern with charging here is that a lot of bikes from the mid 80's and older were using old style mechanical voltage regulators.
Thanks for the comments, Chad. Just so you know, I think you'll find that the regulators on these bikes use SCR diodes to do the shunting, i.e. they're not mechanical.

Not that makes the voltage regulation ever so reliable ! :-)
Apr 30th, 2019 10:43 am
chad-ANTIGRAVITYLITHIUMBATTERIES Hi everyone, just wanted to chime in here to add a little additional info as we just came back recently as site sponsors.

Essentially the concern with charging here is that a lot of bikes from the mid 80's and older were using old style mechanical voltage regulators. Sure you can test your output but if it's randomly failing, sticking and spiking voltage (which at some point after time it will) you may not catch it. Keep in mind this is also harmful to lead/acid batteries but just not as detrimental as it can be to lithium. So the safe solution here is just updating to modern solid state components that will work in proper tolerance.

While one of the key benefits is weight with lithium batteries it's not always going to make a spectacular difference, especially in heavier bikes but there are other benefits such as physical size, peak performance output, having twice the cranking power, and a longer lifespan when maintained properly. While Tamaran was looking at the AG-1201 which doesn't have any additional protections built in and maintaining becomes extremely vital, it should also be noted that there are options available as well like our RE-START series which have protections built in to help ensure that battery is maintained.

As I mentioned we recently just signed on as sponsors so please feel free to reach out to us with any questions you might have on lithium or any of our products.
Apr 28th, 2019 5:54 am
Ventodue Thanks for the feed-back, Wesley. As you say, gives another option ...

Craig
Apr 27th, 2019 3:07 pm
Tamaren Appriciate the advice, and in the future to save some money an AGM would be what I would go with, but if anyone is wondering I've run that lithium battery on my '80 SSD with no problems for a few months. Been reliable and no issues starting. It's an option for people out there, I guess.
Jan 26th, 2019 3:32 am
Ventodue Hi Wesley,

Like Colin, I still use regular AGM batteries in my bikes, my SSD included. Quality AGMs push out the CCA you need and you should expect 8+ years of life. I can't really see the advantage of Lithiums: they're more expensive, are reputed to be fussy about how they're charged - and the weight saving sure ain't gonna make no difference!

That said, I know at least one Laverda owner who's running a Lithium in his late 1990's bike. He seems happy :-))

But back to your questions: voltage spikes. Well, not so much 'spikes'; but the standard reg/rec in these bikes is a fairly simple bridge rectifier and shunt regulator and yes, you can see voltage at the battery going up to 14v or so. A more modern Mosfet would deal with this - but it's yet more expense to deal with a problem that you've caused in the first place. So ...

As to the charge current. In theory, the alternator can put out 200 watts at a rectified 12v. Which in theory could push the current above 16 amps. In practice? Not so sure ... :-)

HTH

Craig
Jan 24th, 2019 11:20 pm
Duccout I doubt that they are the same (??) but I've been running a tiny Odyssey battery on my 900 for years with no problems. It sure saves a lot of weight!
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