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  Topic Review (Newest First)
May 14th, 2018 1:40 pm
DaveK With wires installed I've not had a hard start yet... however - it's a bit warmer out than it was when I WAS having hard start issues. The bike may be turning over a bit faster... but it's hard to tell. When it WAS starting hard I would connect a booster to start the bike and even then it wouldn't really sound like it was cranking faster... but it was and would always start.

If I get to the same time next year and have not had any hard starts I'll declare the wires a total success... can't really do that just yet.
May 10th, 2018 4:41 am
Qweklain
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveK View Post
I've got the kit for my 15... I don't see any instructions for the DVT multi's on the motolectric site. I imagine I can figure it out and use the pre-dvt instructions as a basic guide... but if you have dvt instructions that would be helpful. I'd especially like to know if there are tricks to feeding the wire through without having to move/disconnect a ton of things (which is what it looks like I'll have to do).
Sounds like you already installed them, but I installed these on my 2016 Pikes Peak and they did absolutely nothing for the starting slow issue. I went back and forth with Motolectric, but ultimately nothing came of it and I think our bikes just need a battery with quite a bit more CCA. The days of crappy starter wires that Ducati were infamous for are a thing of the past.

Also, it is actually a lot easier than the non-DVT. You only have to remove the seat (obviously), the small left side fairing (from the perspective of sitting on it), and the little EVAP canister behind it. Then all you have to do is pull the old cable out, and push the new cable through which is very easy to do.
May 9th, 2018 5:21 pm
DaveK
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedkelly View Post
When I did mine it was not that hard. Basically remove the seats, and the little black plastic cover on the left hand side. Also the belly pan/crash plate. It looks way harder than it is, I removed the stock wires and only used the HiCap wires. Otherwise I found it was just to tight. There is a bit of having to fish the wires through some tight openings. Good kit overall.

As a follow up, I will say my bike has started in all weathers, in very cold temps. So I guess the kit did help. I was looking for something to spin my bike over faster. But I just come to the fact that these Duc's spin over slowly. Still on the stock battery.

Good luck, I'm sure your figure it out.
I got to the "fishing wires through tight spaces"... this one's not quite as bad as the 17 airbox lid but still pretty tight. I've given up on replacing the little rubber tie downs behind the frame and I'm using tie wraps back there... no way I can attach that button bit back there.

EDIT: Finished... used tie wraps everywhere instead of the rubber things (which I think I can use in other places). They did do a good job with the kit... everything fit nicely (other than the diameter being too big for a couple of restraints.
May 8th, 2018 8:50 pm
DaveK
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedkelly View Post
When I did mine it was not that hard. Basically remove the seats, and the little black plastic cover on the left hand side. Also the belly pan/crash plate. It looks way harder than it is, I removed the stock wires and only used the HiCap wires. Otherwise I found it was just to tight. There is a bit of having to fish the wires through some tight openings. Good kit overall.

As a follow up, I will say my bike has started in all weathers, in very cold temps. So I guess the kit did help. I was looking for something to spin my bike over faster. But I just come to the fact that these Duc's spin over slowly. Still on the stock battery.

Good luck, I'm sure your figure it out.
I ordered it when it was colder out and it was not cranking hard enough to start without a little throttle (and then it was pissed off and didn't want to idle), now the bike is starting perfectly but since I have it - I'm going to put it on and see if it helps this fall.
May 8th, 2018 8:05 pm
speedkelly When I did mine it was not that hard. Basically remove the seats, and the little black plastic cover on the left hand side. Also the belly pan/crash plate. It looks way harder than it is, I removed the stock wires and only used the HiCap wires. Otherwise I found it was just to tight. There is a bit of having to fish the wires through some tight openings. Good kit overall.

As a follow up, I will say my bike has started in all weathers, in very cold temps. So I guess the kit did help. I was looking for something to spin my bike over faster. But I just come to the fact that these Duc's spin over slowly. Still on the stock battery.

Good luck, I'm sure your figure it out.
May 8th, 2018 7:27 pm
DaveK
Quote:
Originally Posted by motolectric View Post
The issue of slow starting after installing the HICAP II kit is very rare but does come up from time to time.

The answer is *not* to assume the battery is not up to snuff. It might not be but you can't assume that.

The first thing to do is to test to see how many amps the starter motor is drawing. To do that you need a DC clamp meter which will read up to at least 200 amps.

Sears makes a decent unit and the link to it is here

Sears.com

If the starter motor itself is partially defective (or worn) or the sprag clutch is dragging due to excess wear then a new battery will only work well for a month or 2.

The HICAP II kit eliminates the normal chokepoints in the starter circuit where the wire meets a terminal and the energy has to transition.

The energy in any circuit is in the metal in the wire. A battery acts like your heart and pumps the energy along the circuit. The much higher copper content (due to our uprating the wire from 8 GA to 4 GA and changing the terminals from brass/steel to pure copper) increases the energy in the circuit by approximately 250% and generally allows the bikes to start right up (about 99% of the time).

But a dragging sprag clutch or overly worn starter motor can cause the current draw to be in the 120-180 amp range and most batteries will not deliver that much current under real-world conditions (they may do it once or twice under test conditions when new).

The Denso 700 watt starter motor should only draw 56 amps - if there is no added load. A decent figure on a bike with some mileage would be 66-86 amps. If the draw is much higher than that then the problem is in the sprag or starter motor.
If the draw is normal then the battery should be tested and the clamp meter can be used for that test.

When starting the bike, the battery should not drop below 10 volts (staying above 11 is best). If it drops to 9.5 volts it is considered *end of life*. A battery that will not hold at least a 70% charge (about 12.45 volts open circuit, i.e. key off, no load) is also considered *end of life*.

We have over 5,000 of the HICAP kits out in the field and out of that number we have heard back from approximately 30 riders that they still had starting issues after the installation.

Hope this helps.

Riders with questions can reply here or PM.

Thanks,

M./
I've got the kit for my 15... I don't see any instructions for the DVT multi's on the motolectric site. I imagine I can figure it out and use the pre-dvt instructions as a basic guide... but if you have dvt instructions that would be helpful. I'd especially like to know if there are tricks to feeding the wire through without having to move/disconnect a ton of things (which is what it looks like I'll have to do).
Dec 2nd, 2017 11:47 am
wetzel The hicap kit looks neat, I'll have to do a bit more reading. For me, all my starting problems went away when I replaced a stock yuasa on my 2010 with an EarthX 36c. The 360 CCA is absurd, turns over the motor in under 1s every time even at near 0 Boston temperatures. I won't say that's the fix for every bike, but it did work for mine. The EarthX is also pricey.
Nov 26th, 2017 10:50 pm
motolectric To try and add some useful info to the starting issue.

In the video below a HICAP II kit buyer documents the problem he has in trying to start his 999. Many problematic bikes do start up within 3-4 seconds but even that is a problem in that batteries "do not like" to be discharged that long.

And anything over 4 seconds is actually considered abusive. If your bike is taking this long to start then you will chew through batteries every year or so, as they degrade at an accelerated rate from the long cranking times.


Now if you know anything about science, you know that there is only one way to do real science: only change one variable at a time.

In the video below we see the results of changing the starting circuit from the OEM to a HICAP II kit. The only difference is the HICAP II kit. Same battery, same load.


The video clearly illustrates that the Ducati starting system is engineered to start right up in 1 second or less but that the issues we cover below usually keep this from happening. He did not charge up the battery or even move the bike off the lift.

We get a lot of emails and videos back from riders who are just amazed that simply installing our kit brings about such a dramatic improvement to the engine starting event.

When a HICAP II kit has ben installed and the bike still cranks for a long time before starting it points to 1 or more problems -

- the batteries true energy storage capability is highly depleted due to cranking the engine for long periods. It may charge up to 100% and even hold that charge, but when put under a heavy load it falls down. This is because the lead softens due to the heat generated during the long cranking times (remember 3-4 seconds is a long time to a SLA battery) and the lead begins to fall off the plates. You can only test for this "hold a charge but fall down under load" with a voltmeter or an external battery load tester.

- the sprag clutch is dragging. When required to do additional work a DC motor will draw more current to try and do that work. A dragging sprag adds more work to the starting event. The excess current draw often exceeds the capability of even fairly new batteries.

- the intermediate gear is binding on its shaft. This will also cause slow starting and the starter motor to draw excess current. (I know an ex-Ducati dealer who used to make a lot of money off Hyper riders who would wheelie a lot as the oil in the sump would flow to the back of the bike and the shaft would be starved of oil. It would begin to bind and the bikes got harder and harder to start).

- the starter motor is either defective or has been degraded due to flowing a lot of current across the commutator while cranking. Carbon builds up which causes the motor to draw more current, and things just degrade from there.

The HICAP II kit increases the energy in a starting circuit by about 250%. The energy is in the metals in the circuit (the battery pumps that energy around the circuit). In the OEM circuits (across all brands of motorcycle) the metals are tin, brass, steel and copper.

In the HICAP II upgrade *ALL* of the metal is high purity copper.

All makers use the same Ohm's Law recipe for calculating which starter motor to use, wire sizing etc. But a motorcycle is a very different environment from a car. The large increase in vibration (over an auto engine bay) and the much higher heat (vs. the fairly open engine bays) causes the circuits to fall off much faster. Add in a slightly dragging sprag or a starter motor that is not 100% on spec and you have the many bikes that have ongoing starting problems.

Hope This Helps.

M./
Nov 25th, 2017 12:35 pm
nikwax One way to eliminate the battery as an issue would be to jump start the bike from a known good battery. If the starter spins faster, that might point to the battery. If it doesn't, then not the battery.

The voltage with the motor running is measuring the output of the charging circuit, not the battery.

Battery voltage with the motor off may or may not tell you about the state of charge and capacity of the battery.
Nov 25th, 2017 10:48 am
granged
The way it is

Could it just be the way it is. Just picked up a brand new '17 MST and the starting sounds tenuous compared to previous bikes but it does start right up just the same. Sounds like a weak crank, but is it really? It doesn't sound like anyone has been left stranded.
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