Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum - Reply to Topic
Thread: Project 1989 900SS Performance Rebuild Reply to Thread
Title:
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










  Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

  Topic Review (Newest First)
Jan 14th, 2019 11:38 am
sakurama Can you post some more photos of that 900SS? I've forgotten what this thread was about and it was one of the reasons I bought a 900SS. It might just keep me from selling mine in the great garage clean out.

Gregor
Jan 9th, 2019 3:13 am
Kiwihame
An update!

So it's been a year, and I'm sorry to report, I've done F-all!

I did actually source a whole lotta 916 tail parts, to make the tail-fairing more 916-like in it's attachment and functionality. (i.e. Flip up) But that required the welder to do his thing so has gone nowhere.

Regardless, money has been the major challenge, and as I've started a new business, building affordable, energy-efficient, environmentally-sustainable homes, using a locally developed and manufactured variation on the top German building systems, all my spare coin has gone into that. Oh, and getting married. (So I'm in debt up to my eyeballs) Luckily, the wife is bike bike friendly, but my 750SS Racebike was a casualty and had to be sacrificed to fund the wedding. Even more luckily, I still have a M696 that is getting converted into something a bit more race-ready. (see pics)

The rough 900SSie (aka "The Shittersport") is making slow progress, and as for the subject of this thread "The Special"? It's still at my Welder's shop... waiting for him to source steel, weld stuff or whatthefuckever. As talented as he is, we've had words and I'm getting to the point were he needs to piss or get off the pot.

I'll post an update next week. Hope you all have a great 2019! I'm gonna make some money this year so I'm certainly planning to! And to get things finished. FINALLY.
Jan 19th, 2018 3:24 pm
Kiwihame
New bits

Quick update: Bought this nice Slipper Clutch for the Smadden motor. (See pics)

Right now I'm beavering away trying to get my road bike up and running before summer ends. It was in such poor condition (oily and corroded) when I bought it that near every nut and bolt was rusty. So me being me, I took the bike to bits, put the small parts in a Tumbler and cleaned and polished every part... Nuts and bolts are off to be plated next week. Then it's going back together.

I also bought some carbon parts for that bike from the guys at RSR Moto. I put Muzza onto them when they first started and their products are fantastic quality and value! Richard, the owner, is a dyed in the wool Supersport guy, and they have an awesome range of Carbon SS parts (including SSDS huggers)! Their service is top notch too.

I'm going to buy a full set of matt-carbon parts for this bike off them and some Titanium too. =)

Check them out: RSR Moto Ltd
Nov 15th, 2017 4:30 pm
racer162 Actually as someone who lives in Japan Web-Bike is quite good! But like everything else you may find a few bad apples. So your comment is a bit off the rails.
Nov 15th, 2017 4:23 pm
Kiwihame
Update

Geez, where has the year gone? I haven't made much progress this year, mainly due to financial reasons, but lately things have been a bit better so I'm slowly getting back into it.

Last post I mentioned my lack of faith in people, but there is one guy who I have to say has restored it and then some, and that's Smadden, who trumped the private swap meet in Ducati Parts that we have been engaged in for the last few years by sending me a BST Carbon Wheel off his Special which is going full Superbike. An early Wedding Present he told me. Of course at that point I had no choice but to get Engaged. (I wonder now if he and my Fiancee weren't colluding...) Anyway, Smadden you're a top man! (I now have to think of what I can send *him* that's better than a BST...)

I've never been happy with the look of the rear subframe so I borrowed a 916 Monoposto Subframe from MadMartin, which was off the 998S that I sold him, so I can see how best to tidy that area up.

Also I did try to buy a very special rear-brake carrier off eBay the other day which Web-bike Japan had listed. They then promptly cancelled the order. Those haven't been made for years so I was a bit gutted. But I expect it was a bogus listing. Web-bike Japan's service is consistently the worst I've encountered from any motorcycle parts retailer so I shouldn't be surprised. I've got a heap of images so I'll get one made for 1/2 the price. =)

Muzza is currently finishing my 750SS (now 750SSie) Racebike which I intend to sell but not before I race at the Sound of Thunder BEARS Racing in February.

Happy just as long as I can keep making progress, slow that it may be.
Feb 15th, 2017 5:17 pm
Combi245 Incapable of sourcing CroMolly what the Fu$k. Its easy to get Steel cuts in Auckland will send you down what ever size and length you want at a price. Rescue the bike - it seems contagious. I have a client who is sending both his bikes to me after been dicked around by a shop in Ak. He wants to go the full Monty on both and is keen on me fuel injecting one of them. Have just handed one bike back to a customer who has been dicking me around with money - wanted to put Vee two pistons, valves and high torque cam on it. Pulled the engine apart checked everything and gave him a bill for the first stage of progress which he duelly paid so went and ordered the bits for his bike on the provisions that he paid for the parts from Vee 2 immediately and he disappeared for 4 months. His just got back and is in a rage that the bike is still in bits. Promptly told him that the bike was going on the footpath - he has just come around and picked it all up along with a bill for all the other work that has been done to date. Not expecting him to pay it but I have a set of cylinder barrels and fully worked heads that he is going to find are missing which he will not be getting back until he pays up.
Feb 15th, 2017 3:08 pm
Kiwihame A couple of guys wanted to know where I'm at, so here's a quick update.

After losing my job at the beginning of last year, I was trying to sort out the money they owed me (which totalled over $100,000) Instead of having some integrity and paying me for the work I'd done, they found a legal loophole which came about due to the death of my friend and mentor, the Managing Director.

I hired, who I thought was, a top lawyer from a big firm. But, due to his workload, he fucked up my case and lost the opportunity to secure the settlement I was offered.

I then set about suing him for the settlement amount but because the bill he sent me was only $2,000 (the threshold is $2,000+GST) the Law Society said I couldn't claim against him for my loss. Screwed by my clients. Screwed by my lawyers. (I refused to pay his bill.)

In May I found some work for another property development company. These guys are worse than the last guys; inexperienced, underfunded and incompetent are the words I would use to describe them. And worse when it comes to paying. For multiple reasons the project was a dog too. And then the local transport authority started to build a motorway next door... Bottom line is, I'm over the property game. I've been job hunting since November but no joy as yet.

Mid last year I also bought a 900SSie with the view to selling my carby SS and riding that before I did an engine swap (i.e. using the stronger SSie cases for my planned "Super Smadden 966" engine) However I bought the SSie unseen and, when it arrived, it was a complete POS. It had lived by the sea all its life and never been serviced. It's corroded to hell. Suspension blown. All the bearings are shot. Even the clutch plates were fused together. It was months before I could even look at it... and it's only been in the last couple of weeks I've felt like stripping it, cleaning it and fixing it.

Late last year my mate Muzza's landlord's change in situation meant Muzza had to buy out his premises. This meant he had to relinquish half his shop. At the same time he lost 2 staff. As a result I had to get my stuff out of his shop and he's been busier than a one armed wallpaper-hanger. Far too busy to help me! So I've still got a 1/2 finished racebike, that I see no point in selling unfinished, and I dont have the money to throw at Muzza to complete, even if he did have the time...

The bike itself has been sitting at another guy's shop since June, where it needs a little welding done. But he seems incapable of sourcing Chromoly, so I'm thinking I might need to go rescue it...

I used to have faith in people. These days, not so much.

So God knows when I'm gonna be back on track (figuratively and literally). I'm still selling and buying the occasional parts, but am keeping a low profile. I certaining won't be racing at the BEARS Sound of Thunder next weekend.

To finish on a positive note, I met an amazingly cool and gorgeous girl mid last year, she loves bikes, and she's recently moved in, so that saved my 2016 from being a complete disaster.

Onwards and upwards!
Jul 31st, 2016 11:40 pm
FastBikeGear
Quote:
Originally Posted by smadden View Post
Hi Liam,

I have to disagree with you on that comment re accuracy. Your product is perfect for a street bike but this is for a race bike ridden by a professional BSB racer. My ECU is a M400 by Motec. I tried to run it off the cam like your Hall effect system but their senior applications engineer said that nothing was as accurate as off the crank...which is true. He said that cam drives experience lash...basically you paid for the best why would you not take the timing off your crank. He also told me to put more than 12 teeth but no more than 60 teeth on the crank and don't ever call me again until you have done that! My bike was not wasted spark either.

Hall effect have a falling trigger, either on or off so you are correct no hysteresis but the these hall effects can not withstand the environment of placement hence inductive pickups are used. Motec have a voltage arming table/rpm that filters out noise and must be set and has a oscilloscope function that generate the raw voltage levels to do so. If I had a street bike, your pick up would be a no brainer but I wanted to tap in to motecs knowledge of traction/wheelie control settings so I had to do my little task first before I rang them ever again!

Below is how I rolled into the pits, cant believe the end of the spline punched a hole that big but then came to rest sitting just inside the cover.
It's not because hall effect devices have a falling trigger that they have no hysteressis (Most inductive ignition systems like those on the Ducati 900SS trigger on a falling voltage. It is the very fast voltage rise and drop (near instant switching due to the very fast hFE (forward current gain) of the hall effect trigger than means it has no consequential hysteresis)

Of course most of my cam triggered ignition systems go on race bikes. A number of the guys who are at the sharp end (winning) of the classic racing field here in NZ are using ignition systems based on my designs. When we measure with the scope we see significant changes in hysteresis (voltage rise and fall times) in induction style pickups. If the hysteresis was constant there would be no problem. Unfortunately the amount the hysteresis varies in practice is dependent on the brand of sensor and the gap between the sensor and the lobe, the size of the lobe, and of course the speed of the lobe past the sensor (which changes with revs) To allow for the variation in hystersis you need to program a correction factor into your ignition system. Ignitech typically recommend an 11 degree correction but of course this will be different for every bike. 11 degrees is quite big compared to variation caused by any cam drive wheel lash, which under drive I would expect to be less than 1 degree.

Hall Effect pickups don't have hysteresis issues. Induction pickups haven't been used on factory performance vehicles since the 90s.

We run the hall effect systems off the cams rather than the cranks for two reasons

1. To get rid of the wasted spark (yes you can also do this if running your ignition timing off the crank if you also use a cam sensor sensor to determine whether the engine is on the firing or exhaust stroke. There are usually very satisfying performance gains in getting rid of the wasted spark.

2. Because they run cooler when mounted external to the engine on our cam mounting systems. Running a hall effect sensor off the crank shaft would be more accurate but the life span of the hall effect devices is then shorter/less reliable.

In an ideal world I would run an oil bath hall effect sensor for the ignition timing off the crank and second sensor on the cam sensor sensor to determine whether the engine is on the firing or exhaust stroke. In fact we do exactly this on some of the four cylinder Japanese race bikes I assist with.
Jul 31st, 2016 7:06 pm
smadden
Quote:
Originally Posted by FastBikeGear View Post
More accurate to trigger hall effect pickups from a cam wheel mounted rotor. Remember the camwheels rotate at half the speed and hall effect pickups have no hysteresis issues which cause trigger timing variation. Also gets rid of the wasted spark so twice the time to build the energy in the coils inbetween firing.
Hi Liam,

I have to disagree with you on that comment re accuracy. Your product is perfect for a street bike but this is for a race bike ridden by a professional BSB racer. My ECU is a M400 by Motec. I tried to run it off the cam like your Hall effect system but their senior applications engineer said that nothing was as accurate as off the crank...which is true. He said that cam drives experience lash...basically you paid for the best why would you not take the timing off your crank. He also told me to put more than 12 teeth but no more than 60 teeth on the crank and don't ever call me again until you have done that! My bike was not wasted spark either.

Hall effect have a falling trigger, either on or off so you are correct no hysteresis but the these hall effects can not withstand the environment of placement hence inductive pickups are used. Motec have a voltage arming table/rpm that filters out noise and must be set and has a oscilloscope function that generate the raw voltage levels to do so. If I had a street bike, your pick up would be a no brainer but I wanted to tap in to motecs knowledge of traction/wheelie control settings so I had to do my little task first before I rang them ever again!

Below is how I rolled into the pits, cant believe the end of the spline punched a hole that big but then came to rest sitting just inside the cover.
Jul 31st, 2016 3:08 am
FastBikeGear More accurate to trigger hall effect pickups from a cam wheel mounted rotor. Remember the camwheels rotate at half the speed and hall effect pickups have no hysteresis issues which cause trigger timing variation. Also gets rid of the wasted spark so twice the time to build the energy in the coils inbetween firing.
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome