AFR...what do you guys think? - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 2018, 11:22 pm Thread Starter
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AFR...what do you guys think?

2010 Hyper 1100 EVO, race ECU piggybacked with PCV with a tune from Todd at Intake Express, fitted with PUK on the intake side and Termi 2-into-1 exhaust.

1. I think it should be making more horse?
2. Is that AFR in the mid range looking kinda lean to you guys or is that within acceptable limits?

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old Dec 16th, 2018, 12:14 am
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it will make the most dyno power around 13.2, and best on road performance around 12.7. leaning it off at the top will increase the number i would think for sure.

i'd make it richer under 5.5k.

know all wanker
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old Dec 16th, 2018, 2:32 am
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Generally an ecu flash is best... Main reason being is if the bike is still making power at the redline.... Then the redline can be moved... That's the way it is for my hyper, and my z1ooo...

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old Dec 16th, 2018, 11:39 am
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You won't gain much power from fuel tuning, it's more for smoothness/throttle response/efficiency.

It looks fine to me, a bit too rich around 7k and a bit lean at 4k. I usually shoot for a tapered AFR map that starts around 14:1 at idle/low load, and tapers diagonally to 13:1 at redline/wfo. Different engines need different parameters but this seems to work for a motorcycle.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old Dec 16th, 2018, 11:54 am
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Do you still have factory O2 sensor in the exhaust?

It does not look to bad to me yes there may be spots that could be a little better but if you are not auto tuning bring it back for a air fuel check on a day where the temperature is different and see if it is still the same. Often the power commander does not take into account trims the ecu is giving so depending on the variables of the day you map was made these readings may change anyway. Anyway I do not measure in DIN here so I would guess that the numbers are in the close (to good side) of what I would read here in another correction factor.

Often times the A/F wants to be leaner at low throttle settings as it will give you a crisper throttle so where I prefer a richer than 13.5 WOT (which is what this graph is of) I do NOT want my low throttle angle that rich as the bike will feel more sluggish. As always a compromise must be set. This is where you need to have your tuner get the best he can for you and then back it up with your driveability demands.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old Dec 17th, 2018, 1:45 pm
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Should def be able to pull some more outta it considering my lil 796 dynoed at 79hp/56ftlbs, and most tuned 1100's are getting at least 100 hp.

2010 Hyper 796 w/ dual shorty Arrows, Rapidbike Evo & MWR Intake, 2004 XR250R, 2008 CRF150R-SM, 2005 TTR88SMR
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old Dec 18th, 2018, 10:07 am
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and a 796 hyler on my dyno with exhaust only made 74.9 rwhp so again showing different bikes,dyno's and conditions can lead to different numbers. If possible only compare your dyno NUMBERS to other similar bikes on the same dyno. Dyno curves should remain the same but there are a number of variable to give different numbers. A customer just dynoed a 900ss and made less power after installing cams, why? Because the last shop that dynoed the Bike found a correction factor that gave the highest number, a easy way to make hp. When we changed the correction factor in my dyno to match the one they used he made more Hp.

Moral of the story is know what you are comparing and don't get hung up on a number.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old Dec 18th, 2018, 10:21 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducvet View Post
and a 796 hyler on my dyno with exhaust only made 74.9 rwhp so again showing different bikes,dyno's and conditions can lead to different numbers. If possible only compare your dyno NUMBERS to other similar bikes on the same dyno. Dyno curves should remain the same but there are a number of variable to give different numbers. A customer just dynoed a 900ss and made less power after installing cams, why? Because the last shop that dynoed the Bike found a correction factor that gave the highest number, a easy way to make hp. When we changed the correction factor in my dyno to match the one they used he made more Hp.

Moral of the story is know what you are comparing and don't get hung up on a number.
I think it is common knowledge that different dynos product different numbers, i wasnt arguing that. My hyper made 76.21 with an intake and full exhaust prior to rapid bike and 79.41 after. Just seems any 1100 should make more then 8 hp more then a tuned 800, but you can argue with me all ya want... Im not here to argue, I have a girlfriend for that

2010 Hyper 796 w/ dual shorty Arrows, Rapidbike Evo & MWR Intake, 2004 XR250R, 2008 CRF150R-SM, 2005 TTR88SMR
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old Dec 18th, 2018, 12:15 pm
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Maybe your girlfriend is paying us to argue for her....

All kidding aside I am not arguing either I just want to make sure people do not get the wrong Idea of what their bike should make on a dyno, it will be a range . I own a Dynojet dyno and have first hand knowledge of what bikes make on MY dyno. I have used two other dynos than my own and even took a course on running one back in the day. What you get is what you get on a given dyno. People just need to be aware not to put Too much into the numbers because they can very just as your info shows.

I do not disagree with you in that a 1100 one would think would make more than we do get in comparison to a 796, but you need to dig deeper to see that a number alone misleads. On my dyno most stock engine 1100 are in the low 80's hp the 796 was low 70's. So 10hp is not much gain for 300ish cc's of displacement, but what about besides peak numbers?

In the runs below you can see the 796 carries the power later and the 1100 due in part to the long stroke is running out of steam earlier, this is where Peak numbers converge yet it does not show the midrange the 1100 has over the 796. Depending on how you ride, the benefits of one over the other are maximized. Some times I like revving the motor to high rpms for the fun of it and I would not choose a 1000 or 1100 for that task. Other times you may want a torque fat midrange so you are NOT shifting a lot and the 1000/1100 is great for that task.

The 1100 motor does have more potential inside to make more power but following history of ducati models/motors you are looking at between 10-20% gain over the smaller motor in PEAK numbers.
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